[Timetrvlr]

Carbon Justice[N.]: The fair distribution of responsibility for addressing climate change, used in reference to the idea that countries should be required to curb CO2 emissions in proportion to their population and per-capita CO2 output. Additionally, a country's ability to pay would determine their overall responsibility.

(Definition courtesy of Popular Science magazine)

What is your take on this? Do you think our country has a responsibility to curb our emissions on this basis? What about our Oil Sands commitments?

We need to be thinking about these things and discussing them. We will likely have a federal election soon and environment will be a hot issue this time.

[Canadian]

I am not trying to sound negative but we have been discussing ways to improve the environment for years in Canada and elsewhere but it is the politicians that will do nothing, especially our current one and the way our voting system is it is hard for smaller parties that could try (We I believe will have minority Federal governments for a while and that could make smaller parties like the Green party be able to try and get some things done, but only if they could get some seats)and do something to get elected.

The way I see it, the time for talk is done. We need to start doing something now and talking for many more years or else it wil be too late.

[Reverend Blair]

I'd like to see the idea of carbon justice tied to the end users. Most of China's emissions exist to feed consumerism in North America and Europe. That is also true of many developing nations.

[Simon47]

In a perfect world. Some of the biggest CO2 producers are technologically deficient and would be zero emitting quickly if they were permitted to go heavily nuclear. Population densities are way far above us and that says something else. Canada is a tiny population and up in the top group of polluters. Can we be forgiven our incapacity to utilize the best available technology because of economics? Should we take the hard line and say; If you can't go clean we have to be mean and shut you down? Irecognizethe challenge of this approach but what is the alternative? The same debate in 20 years with even higher pollution levels and toxic human effect. Shut 'em down but expect the cost of everything to go up up and away. Cost will rise for many things anyway when we do actually reduce our oil conssumption singificantly and sales fall off. There will be a transition period where even the alternative will be at a premium price because their sales don't warranted mass production price reduction. What's the right answer?

Sim

Originally Posted by Timetrvlr

(Definition courtesy of Popular Science magazine)

What is your take on this? Do you think our country has a responsibility to curb our emissions on this basis? What about our Oil Sands commitments?

We need to be thinking about these things and discussing them. We will likely have a federal election soon and environment will be a hot issue this time.

[Simon47]

This is important and key to our economy. What happens when you slap import/export restraints tied to a carbon quotient or toxicity index. Kiss WallyMart goodbye and so long to wasting good resources on cheap crap produced by western corporations in eastern countries. Kiss our own exports goodbye. What would happen if oil tankers that land in our ports had to be registered in accordance with western standards for ocean going vessels. Ask Paul Martin(former Finance Minister) about that and Liberian Registration on ships of Canadian and American origin. More than have the cargo, cruise and container ships would be pulled out of the water. What about ethical responsibility of all corporations to operate in accordance with the highest global standards. What is the "cost" of mandatory compliance to 9001 and 14001 standards as opposed to voluntary aspiration toward compliance? What is the cost of changing nothing? Now we are back to the beginnning of the viscious circle andwe are left with the obvious. Pollution is increasing and the planet is warming. It doesn't even matter if the two are related. One has to stop and the other will do what it does anyway. I don't think we're going to like the consequence no matter how it plays out.

I'm all for sweeping and drastic change. The guarantee is a very different world either way we choose. Some good and some.....?....

Sim

Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Most of China's emissions exist to feed consumerism in North America and Europe. That is also true of many developing nations.

[Canadian]

I honestly think there never will be sweeping and drastic changes until it is far far too late.

Unless we have a Revolution and take back the governments so they represent the people and not the corporations the planet is finished.

Yes it goes in cycles, heats up, cools off but we have dramatically accelerated the process.

The reality is nothing much will get done. There is no political will to do it, even though many people want it to happen it just won't.

All Oil, Auto and other industries have to do is threaten layoffs and politicians back off.

Personally I am glad I am old as I am now and not 4 or 5 as I won't live long enough to see the suffering this and previous generations are going to impose on the next ones.

You try and do anything drastic you get arrested, tasered or it becomes suicide by cop.

Really what can people do?

[Timetrvlr]

Canadian posted:

Really what can people do?

Fair question, what can ordinary folks like us do in our daily lives to reduce our carbon footprint?

I'm not Solomon so I don't have a complete answer, but I do know that we have to stop focusing all our energies on the problem and start examining a whole basketful of solutions.

The one that I can do is to practice energy conservation in a thousand little ways from changing light bulbs to sealing cracks and adding insulation. One of the really easy ways to conserve is to look at the stuff you buy, was it made in China or from a source closer to home? It costs a lot of carbon to import goods.

The next one that I can do is to actively promote and vote for candidates that will push conservation and renewable energy initiatives. This will also create whole new industries, technologies, and jobs. This is a power that we all have but use too seldom.

[Simon47]

Evil thrives when good folk do nothing. Send your message whether it is handwritten to someone who cares or not or reflected in purchasing choices, consumer polls and the price index. If anyone thinks they have any less power in fixing it than they do in contributing to the problem then you need to empower yourself. It's only the perception of limits that creates the limits and that comes most often through acceptance by the proxy of seemingly impossible. It's impossible to make an elephant disappear in front of your eyes but magicians have been doing it for years. This hopeless sense of ineffectiveness I hear whined about constantly is the result of successful marketing creating the perception that the system is just to big and complicated and the misinformation campaigns from a wide range of sources insisting that the process is so irrevocably corrupted that good can't hope to flourush. to me; That's crap and jutstification for not bothering. Do everything you can think of and think about everything you're doing. Do that and you will discover what's right.

Sim

Originally Posted by Canadian

Really what can people do?

[Simon47]

A revolution of mind. Get everybody participating in the process and it will be your government. All a violent revolution gets you is a mess to clean up and new dictators. Dictators are not just individuals or people. Dictators can be values, standards and commonly applied ethical principles too. What about a Bill of Rights for the Environment. That would be a positive dictator. More justice and balance of equity in society. better health care. Cleaner jobs. quality careers; new industry dictated by social conscience. Consumer demand dictates product delivery. Corporations are famous already for giving us what we want. Who is really in charge.

Sim

Originally Posted by Canadian

Unless we have a Revolution and take back the governments so they represent the people and not the corporations the planet is finished.

[workinman]

"remember remenber the 5th of November"... from the movie 'V for vendetta'

i agree... 'all evil needs to triumph is for good people to do nothing"
i do as much as i can so atleast in 40 years i can honestly look my grand kids in the eye and tell them 'this mess was not by my hand'