[Roguegal]

Yeah, it would be nice if the leaders who start the wars would fight the war themselves. I bet that would mean less wars!

[stav]

Absolutely right Roguegal.. Not only less wars, but far shorter ones too. Lets see when it's their asses being shot at, that they take the same 'acceptable losses' view they take now..

[Roguegal]

They wouldn't take the same views! Because their asses would be on the online. I, for one, am very proud and honored to have those men and women fight for my freedoms! No matter whether it is right or wrong if they are over there. I do not want to see what happened during the Vietnam war to happen again. Back then, people were spitting on the service men and women when they returned home. I think if I would've been an adult at that time and saw it happen, my temper would have flared out of control. Those men and women are not only over there because they want to be, but because they were order. They did not start the war! Just like Vietnam.

I am a patriot and I love my country very much. Even if it is flawed because of the government. Those flaws can be corrected, by us, the people.

[tater03]

I agree with you that you need to support the men and women over there. They are just doing their job and protecting us even if you may not agree with the reasons they are their. I agree though that if more politcians went to war themselves they would seriously debate going to war more. But in the end I also don't think it is an easy decision for someone to make.

[Roguegal]

No, it is not an easy decision to make. But after 9/11, President Bush did exactly what any one of us would have done at that time. The same thing that President Roosevelt did after Pearl Harbor. The problem is, that President Bush didn't go in the way he should have. He went in on a fishing trip for that asshole! If he would've gone in full throttle, it would be over by now. That's just my opinion.

[mollyL]

Rogue, those stories about Viet Vets getting spat upon were in the most part anecdotal and quite untrue. I was a teenager living in LA when the war ended, I never saw that happen. Although I fought hard against the war, as did all my friends, I didn't harbor hard feelings against the soldiers, only the politicians that put them there. When our friends came home from Viet Nam, we did not spit on them, we hugged them and never wanted to let go, we were so glad to see them home!
I also have to disagree with you about why the soldiers are serving in Iraq. They are not there to ensure our rights and freedoms, they are there to ensure big business and evil people's "rights" to make as much money as possible. Our rights and freedoms are getting eroded every day. What about habeas corpus? Our rights to privacy? Our right to assemble, travel, and even read our library books in peace have all been severely eroded, and that was not done to keep us safe; it was to keep us frightened and compliant.
I'm all about respecting and loving our troops, my daughter is an air force vet, and my son in law has spent months in Iraq and Kuwait. I don't want them sent back because Cheney or Bush or their minions need another million or two. I want the troops back and our rights back!!

[Roguegal]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree then. Because I believe they are over there for many reasons. Some of which you have mentioned is true. But they are also fighting for us and our rights. Even if the government has taken some of those rights away from us in the form of "Homeland Security". I agree that Homeland Security has been taken to far. But, we also have the right to live without the threat of terrorism.

As for the Vietnam war soldiers, I have seen news footage of people spitting on soldiers and my brother, who was over there, came home to just that. It may not have been widespread, but it did happen. The problem was that some people took the movement to stop the war to the extreme and took it out on the soldiers. On top of that, Vietnam wasn't a "war". By that I mean we did not "declare" on Vietnam. We did "declare" on Iraq. They did a sneak attack on us just like Japan did in World War II. The problem is that it was not the government but the religious fanatics who did it. From what I understand of their culture there is a fine line between the two. But, I do believe that we have made our point and should return our soldiers home.

[mollyL]

Rogue, I will agree with your last three sentences. The "fine line" between extremists and "regular" people is right on. Our culture mirrors this as well. There are religious fundamentalists over there, as there are here; and both fundamentalists, both Christians and Muslims, are the ones that are crazy for war.
You are also quite right, Viet Nam was never a declared war, and that was one of the points that the anti-war demonstrators laboured to point out.
I am sorry your brother was spat on; this is the first instance that I have heard first-hand and not anecdotally. The film clip you have seen is just that; a film clip. You can show a clip over and over, and it can take on the aspect of "what happened". I repeat, we wanted our friends and brothers home, and we did NOT blame Viet Nam on the soldiers.
I have to take great exception to your statement that Iraq did a "sneak attack" on the US!!! The main players in the conspiracy were almost to a man from Saudi Arabia. Bush couldn't retaliate against Saudi Arabia, Bush's friends and business interests mostly come from there. bin Laden is from Saudi Arabia. Iraq was the easiest state to "retaliate" against and it had lots of oil, and lies were used to make a case against Iraq. If you pay attention to the news right now, you will hear how it was done.

[Roguegal]

I apologize if it seemed like I was accusing you and your friends of what others did. I did not mean to do that. I meant to state that there were those who did it.

Well, as for Iraq and Saudi Arabia I will take your word for it. Since this whole mess started I have really not paid that much attention to the news. Mainly because it makes me mad. The only thing you see on the news anymore is what bad things are happening. I watch the weather and that's just about it. But I still consider it a "sneak attack" because there was no warning of any kind before it happened. In later years it may be discovered that the government had warning signs just like they had with Japan. And I still believe that we have completed what we needed to do and need to bring our boys home.

[chris1203]

I hadn't heard anything about this before the election and, now that Obama is President, I haven't heard anything about it after the election.