Our SponsorsDIY Projects |
|
DIY - Convert Your car to use Hydrogen Today
Posted on Fri May 5 2006
The United Nuclear Hydrogen Fuel System Kit converts your existing vehicle to run on Hydrogen. Complete hydrogen conversion kits will soon be available for various late-model cars & trucks as well as individual system components for those who choose to assemble their own kits. Included in the kits (and also available separately) is our solar powered Hydrogen Generator that manufactures the Hydrogen fuel for your vehicle at virtually zero cost. Simply put, you never have to buy Gasoline again. Since there are no major changes made to your engine, you can still run your vehicle on Gasoline at any time. We now have over 50,000 trouble-free miles on our prototype vehicles which are using hydrogen conversion kits. We are currently fleet-testing our systems and are in final preparation for sales to the general public. OH WAIT THE US GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO CLOSE THE COMPANY DOWN... WHY IN THE HELL???? We've been able to find a conversion manual for purchase here and recently we've found a two book set on how to convert your car to run on water, you can find it here. Comments | |
Subscription Zone
Popular ArticlesOur Sponsors |
|
Haha... You wish.....
It's real... I almost bought a kit, but right as I was about to finish the deal, the gov shut down the site. sometimes I hate being an American.
I don't understand. According to the websites, plans etc. you can buy this stuff at your local hardware store. Why not just buy the plans and do it yourself?
No clue...
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977172998 Look up this link. Apparently the Icelandic's are running on it! So why aren't we all!? If we all converted our cars would it damage the economy? Probably. But if we don't find a way to make it cheaper or find another solution. How are small business's going to succeed? Im cutting down costs, my clients are cutting down costs, their clients are cutting down costs. Hmmm... Hold on a minute if all business's go bankrupt won't that damage the economy!? I must admit that if you are like me don't have a clue about car engines, don't attempt this product on your car. But if you are like me I'm going to keep researching until i decide to put $50 into it. Who knows i might find some one who knows enough about car engines to attempt this conversion! Unfortunately on this post i have not seen engine clueless people like myself posting how easy this is! Years ago some one did come up with this invention but that person also disappeared and was never heard of again. Probably got paid $$$$ to keep his mouth shut. Anywho good luck all, i will keep this alike if i find anything good!
Hi: I have a comment about all of this. If this is so great, why can't you just flush your gas tank, fill it up with water and use this system to power your car. I understand you need to converter, to convert water to hydrogen, but it seems to me that if you could just fill your gas tank up with water, you could drive for a year or longer with the water in the tank.
I don't think you understand how this system works. The conversion kits has its only tank you have to install in your vehicle. It does not allow you to run the car on 100% Hydrogen. The system is just adding hydrogen to the engine along with the normal gas you run the vehicle on. This system has a mixing valve that allows some Hydrogen as well as your normal fuel to burn in the engine. The system is rugulated so you end up burning more hydrogen that Gasolene. The gasolene is then routed back into the fuel tank. You end up using about 30% lest gas because of this mixing process. For some reason people think your are running the cars engine on just water alone. That is not the case.
Mark your idea is fantastic. Try it on your car, and let us if it works, however I promise you that in a matter of SHORT time we as a nation will come very close.
i have altered my 75 ford truck with a homeade hydrogen fuel cell i made from 4 stainless steel wall switch plates 2 12 inch threaded 1/4 inch rods 1 half gallon plastic jug with screw off lid 3/8 inch hose auto wire with fuse i've sold 4 and they work great i cut my fuel consumption in half
could you tell me how to do this?
i know some people
Hey John, do you have a schematic that could illustrate all of this, it sounds absolutely great.
Would you mind sharing your plans with us?
can you email me how to roughly do this please ?
NOt to mention the water would rust your tank.
Mike, Did the guy send you his DIY design?
[...] read more | digg story [...]
if this is really the case please send me the info. I would like to send it to one of my multi Billion dollar companies. Maybe they can take the fight. Here or over seas and let it be an import to the USA. HAVE you tried Ross Pero
[...] If so, maybe you need to pick up one of these hydrogen conversion kits. Availible for most late model cars, these kits use a combination of hydrogen and solar power to drive you where you need to go. Why haven’t you heard of this earlier? Probably because the government is trying to shut the company down. Yay for fat wallets… [...]
[...] oh ya the US goverment is trying to shut down the company… wonder why… I’m so sick of this political bsread more | digg story Posted in Hydrogen Cars [...]
[...] With the car companies taking sweet time to come up with alternative fuel vehicles that are affordable for the general public. We’ve covered previously DIY - Convert Your car to use Hydrogen Today and now we bring you a story of Art Haines who has taken upon himself and his students to build the solar car for the average Joe. He’s now offering the solar DIY car kit that gives everyone a chance to live the dream of driving for free, causing no pollution. [...]
Well hydrogen conversions are easy to do. Just make a fuel cell(i suggest an aaron cell design) and connect the output to the motors intake by bypassing the carborator and most of the airfilter by drilling a hole in the filters side and put a tube through to prevent H2 O fuel from entering the filter. And yes the goverment is against it for 2 reasons it is not safe if done improperly as H2 O is verry explosive and flamable. Also it hurts the economy by decreasing fuel sales. And with a large enough generator, a good H2 and O balance, and slight injectors and other engine changes can give you 100% powered by hydrogen.
My brother tried this product and its a gimmick. He did everything the right way with his air filter and carborator. He modified his injectors. Started up the car(05 Audi A4 with Direct Injection), then engine made a loud pop inside.We later found out his engine block cracked open. The car engine was totally destroyed. Thats why the government is trying to shut these engine destroyers down. Because its a product that robs people of their money and their vehicle engines.
you are an idiot the system has been tested by channel 12 news and reported gains of 45% fuel economy your bro scrwed up there are many cars that run on hydrogen maybe your bro used the wrong catalyst produced chlorine gas I would suggest using a cheap throw away car until you perfect your system then intro system to your everyday vehicle. Hydrogen fuel is real get a glass a battery jumper poor some baking soda and water in the glass hook two wires up two positive and negative cables of jumper hook those wires up to two copper scouring pads make sure the pads cant touch each other and light a lighter where the bubbles come out your flame will be three times the size and bluish thats the hydrogen burning sport.
I agree with marc....you are an IDIOT!!! or work for the oil companies. this fuel cell is catching on big time...myself included and my gas mileage has gone from 26.5 to 43 miles per gallon. This is not a gimmick. So either you are just lying, did not install it correct.....or did not do enough research to build the fuell cell correctly. If you are not lying..... the only way you get a 'boom' is if you did not secure the positive and negative plates....if they touch they will short out or possibly create a spark and ignite the hydrogen But guess what? having gasoline in your car is pretty dangerous to begin with...remember the pintos that blew up whenever they got rear ended? My point is as long as things are engineered with safety in mind...nothing should go wrong.
Oli... its not a fuel cell, careful who you call idiot
um... sory to tell you this but an engine either have injectors or a carberator. It will NEVER have both. the reason you trashed your engine is because you didn't adjust the valve timing!!
I'm sorry, meant to say the ignition timing but the valve timing should be adjusted as well.
Hey super would you also have to put in stainless steel valves to prevent the engine from rusting?
Yo, Anewlow!... it's a hydorgen GAS not water vapor. i would think no need for stainless valves,.
Hydrogen is one of the most corrosive gases out there. YES, you need to use stainless steel.
Luke warren sounds like he is talking out his fuel injected carbureted ass
Is there a company out there that does the hydrogen conversions
Being in automobile sales, I thought that if I could increase gas mileage I would sell my product with ease. My long time garage owner friend is experimenting with this. It does work, but not to his satisfaction. I gave him an old TBI car to further work on, as these give less problems W/ engine management.When this is perfected we will move on to post 96 autos.We both have the resources to build,and install them.In all honesty they have to be perfect before you can sell it to the public. We hope to have perfection by fall going into the new year for production,and sales.In essence there is no instant success, just honest hard work,with an eye toward tomorrow. Thanx..
The reason this will never come to be is that the government is making sure it is left to do it yourselfers who normally don't have the common sense to try to understand what they are attempting, therefore they fail at least 5 times out of 10 then bitch about the instructions making most other people who want to try it become afraid of it, that is why the government is comfortable thinking it will never be as lomg as they keep big industry out of it, cost has nothing to do with it, I intend to read all I can find on the subject and will attempt to do it soon. After about 40 years working on the automobile I feel I can accomplish this. Also fuck the governmental agencies who think they can tell average joe what to do.
The real reason the gov does not want you to have this tech. is because of the deal Henry Kissinger made with the oil producing Country's. 1 must produce oil in us denominations.2 must sell oil at our set price.3.a portion on profit must pay back our national dept. if they agree they will be rich beyond belief. All but to country"s said yes Irac and Iran. in 2000 Iran said they were going to sell oil cheap and they were going to sell in the new Euro .If that happend then all other country's would not have to abide by us standards.all this come back to the national dept. our dollar is really worth 3 cent if we lose those country's paying our national dept. our dollar goes to zero. thanks to the federal res. and you fed gov. this is all so why we went back into Irac we need there oil. that also why I ran is producing a nuck to stop us from coming in to there country. look it up it's all there just research it. and yes the gov knows there are to many stupid people out there that fuck shit up. if you get it right let me know I'm working on one too
hello dan,you are correct i heard the same from lindsey williams, and i believe this to be the truth. i am searching for some hydrogen unit that will really save alot of gas to.
How much does this thing cost? Personally, I am a little cautious about what I do to my car, especially if I don't have clue what it does. However, I do believe hydrogen is the key it getting us off Arab oil.
If you think about its a small price to pay to see if this works... I mean the price of fuel just reached $110...
Why do they still have this kind of websites on the internet?
there's so much crap on the net it's hard to discern real information from misinformation campaigns. Car and oil companies , basically one and the same, hire full time misinformation writers to flood the net with contradictory testimonials. Just like cigerettes, misinformation campaigns keep us with the status quo. Is there a nuetral , reliable source of information?
I urge all of you to google: Cornish Hydrogen Act on what you see. This technology is REAL! This is not that Browns gas electrolysis snake oil shit. This is converting aluminum wire and water straight into hydrogen. In fact, it is 100.00 % pure hydrogen gas produced, and thats whether you use fresh water, salt water, wine, or goat piss in the aperatus. All the impurities go to the Aluminum Oxide that forms in the bottom. Mark my words, you will see this replace all the electrolysis crap - which is pure perpetual motion - you will never get more energy out than you put in. The only reason Browns gas (Hydrogen mixed with Oxygen Gas) helps the effeciency of a gasoline engine is that they are so patheticly inefficient. Anything will help a little! Watch for a shortage of Aluminum Welding Wire next, because one $15 1lb roll and about 20 gallons of water will take you 500 miles. What about the Aluminum Oxide that falls to the bottom? So what? Put it in a bag (like a ziploc or something) It recycles straight back into Aluminum with a little electricity. Thats right! You are not running your car on water, but instead running it on the electricity it takes to make aluminum!
There are several websites about converting autos to run on water (hydrogen). All they want to do is sell the instructions to do the conversion. It seems to me that if this really worked, they would sell the kits / hardware along with the instructions. If I saw a kit for sale for a reasonable price I would buy it. But I will not buy just the instructions alone.
Ok...I see a lot of people commenting on the hydrogen conversion. I checked out the site and they are selling the info for a limited $49.00 price tag. I'm sure it's not limited. Anyway, it says anyone can do it yet I see posts saying you have to adjust timings etc. and if you don't do it right, you can destroy your engine. Big risk considering. My question is...realistically, how easy is it to do and how easy is it to destroy your engine?
Hello everyone: I just purchased one of the very instruction kits that Jay spoke of. I paid for it through the site with my credit card and recieved the EBook immediately (PDF). I'm an engineer and I was fairly bogged down with the depth of what it takes to build this thing. You're basically building this thing from scratch (winding wire around a magnet to build the coil component, build your own circuit board). I mean come on, get real. I was curious and I am educating myself on the subject so I think it was money well spent. I may even read the whole thing at some point. I think this is a great forum. Everyone sounds real interested and intelligent. Let's try to keep it up as long as we can and see if we can get somewhere with this. Between the bunch of us we should be able to put one of these things together. I would certainly recommend trying to find components that are already manufactured (like the coil, electolytic unit, circuit board, etc.). Until, of course, the BIG GOV shuts us down. I called a canadian company today that supposedly manufactures kits, but they told me that they don't deal with the general puplic. Ecofuel.com Joe Environmental/Civil Engineer (and Former Mechanic) - Manchester, NH
Also, I when I talked to the sales staff at that Canadian company (Ecofuel.com) they told me that the EPA has a Certification program for companies wanting to develop/install this aftermarket Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AFV) technology. They are concerned about emissions being worse than with conventional gasoline engine technology. That means joe public (You and Me) are excluded from this bureaucratic cluster unless we have lots of $$$ to invest in research and development to document our technology. Technicians are also supposed to be certified under the EPA program as well. It doesn't sound like you and I will be seeing the benefits of this for some time to come unless some Entreprenaurs out there get creative and don't get greedy at the same time. I would like to hear any input and anyone elses research on the subject. Let's learn from eachother.
But have you put it together yet? And have you installed it and gotten improved mileage as they all claim. Which company did you order from? Thanks for sharing any more info you might have.
I also bought this publication,and to buy the housing parts alone,from the company they suggested,you're gonna have at least $400-$500 in Cpvc pipe alone..!!! Have you ever tried to wind a toroid coil with 2000 winds..????! Not an easy job.I do agree with you,that it would be more practical to buy some of the items needed already prefab. Also,..they are very vague on who to call about the actual needed conversion of a specific vehicle. I shoulda saved my money....UGH..!
The Government, Wall Street, auto manufacturers (also wall street), big oil and all those billionaires/millionaires smack real loud of fleecing the average Joe out of his money thru oil & hindering all attempts at alternate fuels. Hydrogen, fuel cell, ethanol and battery/electric technology is very real and has been for decades. Think of all the billions of dollars that would be lost by those millionaires & billionaires from oil and other things if such devices were to hit the market overnight, especially hydrogen. A lawn mower or car thru a heavy truck built today and yesterday can burn hydrogen with very little modification. In fact, modern technology such as on board engine controlling computers, catalytic converters, throttle bodies, carbs and such would not really be needed in a pure hydrogen powered vehicle. Education of America and the world's general population to the REAL alternative fuel possibilities will be necessary before these alternative fuels/methods can ever have a possibility at becoming reality. $4.00+ per gallon gasoline & $5.00+per gallon diesel will certainly speed this education but millions of dollars will be lost to thugs on the Internet & elsewhere in this process. Pitiful, because the net is the one place with the greatest potential.
Has anyone actually tried this hydrogen conversion kit? I mean for real. Someone with a phone number and address? I have a device in my 2006 Camry and I'm getting 55 mpg at 61 MPH. How do I know this? I use a Scan Gauge
Did you use one of the simple DIY books like water4gas or is this process something more difficult? I just purchased the book from water4gas as a curousity but is this real?
Mike, did yo actually build the device you have in your Camry? If so, what kit did you use? II have a 1995 Honda Civic that gets pretty decent gas mileage, but we all know that it could always be better. I also have a 1995 Ford F150 that gets 10 gallons to the mile... it needs so much help.. (almost $100.00 bucks to fill it up...seriously..)
Mike, I would sure like to know about how to make this device you made. I have a 93 ford F150 that gets horrible gas mileage. I love the truck though.
Dave, I made the device myself. It goes in the air intake tube to the throttle body. My device is for real. So real in fact that I will put my money where my mouth is. I will put $5,000.00 cash on the dashboard of my car. If I can't show at least 55MPG going down the highway at 60MPH, the money is yours. But 55MPG isn't enough. I want to hit at least 80 MPG at 60MPH. I think the hydrogen unit will allow me to do it? Send me your direct email and phone number and maybe we can put something together. Mike
mike, i saw your post about increased milage on your car. I built a h2 geneator and am thinking about how to put it on my truck. Any ideas? jr
Hy my name is Florin,are you willing to share the info of your device,I can share same of mine to....
Mike in 1980 jc whitney sold a system which is no longer availabe It worked but no one really cared but me so I lost interest.Today I'm ready to get back into it since so many out there are interested . My system in 1980 increased about 15% mileage .I would like to get much more can you give me some realibale info to increase .thanks Tim
Hi Mike my name is Bill. I am looking into this and seeking out real info. Just started and it seems everyone just wants money. I would like to stay on the free side of this and just help fight the OPEC. I can't find any free info, yet. Any help, Thanks
JUST CURIOUS, I PURCHASD THE BOOK TOO HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO CONSRUCT YOUR UNIT? AND WHAT WAS YOUR FINAL COST DO YOU ESTIMATE. THANKS GARY LAGANA HOUSTON TX
Mike, are you sharing or selling? Is your device different than what everybody is talking about here? Do you have a hybrid Camry? What mods did you have to do to the engine? Interested in a partner/investor?
Mike , where did you get the plans for the device? Where can i see you car at?
Simple magnetic device manufactered by Magnetizer will give you 20% better milage.I am using it from 1992...and beside better milage it cats polution down too. CO2 on my 17 years old Buick is 0.73, CO...0.01. Strangely, no envirometalist has interest to buing it.($150 =/-) Instalation is simple; zip ties.
I want to give my '93 Cadillac better gas mileage, can you help me out
What do you say to critics that your process takes too much electricity to use in cars that have mid to optiman levels of electrical demands?
You could install a higher amp alternator or add another alternator and battery, if needed, just to run the system. My Dodge truck has a 130 amp alternator and it doesn't use all that amperage except for winching etc. May start with that truck first since it has a large capacity alternator and sure could use some increased MPG. Already adding a second battery for things like winching so I could run such a system off that battery then turn the system off when using the winch etc. On second thought, I will likely experiment with my cheap 1989 Ford Festiva and an old Honda 4-wheeler I have first, then go on to the Dodge truck if successful. Doing your experiments with low cost machines first, then on to more expensive toys is the best idea while you're unsure of the additions.
Ok, I'm a Master Tech through ASE. I've been in the Automotive business for 34 years. I train at least 40 hours a year for updates. I bought the plans via PDF. This reminds me of a water injection system that is ages old. In WWII P-48 fighter planes used to add water to the combustion chamber during dog fights to increase compression ratio in the combustion chamber therefore increasing horsepower when needed. Another thing is this, on older engine that have alot of carbon build-up adding water to the combustion chamber very slowly will increase intake and exhaust flow and have a more complete burn. Notice I said burn and not explosion. After the carbon is gone I see no added benefit to adding water for fuel mileage. It will probably help power to some degree. What bothers me about the way this is advertised is, These people make it sound like this is true Hydrgen Conversion as a fuel. The way this is added I don't see it as a fuel. When water vapors are added in the combustion chamber the water simply takes up area inside the combustion chamber therefore raising compression. Also they suggest you advance timing. Raising compression and advancing timing is not a good combination. Earlier I referred to BURN in the combustion rather then explosion. Burn is good, Explosion (detonation or spark knock) is bad. Raising compression and advancing timing causes explosion.
For hydrogen as fuel without gas/diesel, the people I have heard on the subject say to lower timing towards more top dead center. They also state that carb or throttle body removal (for increased air intake if no other reason) with the injection of pure hydrogen at drastically lowered pressures (pressures a whole lot lower than compressed hydrogen in a cylinder has) near the intake valve through a stainless steel tube about the size of a basket ball nozzle on an air compressor hose or the size of a horse syringe (for giving horses a shot). Never heard to advance timing even when using the water to hydrogen boost technique-don't even sound feasible because hydrogen burns faster than pure gasoline! That's why a gasoline engine has advanced timing in the first place-to give the gasoline time to burn as completely as possible at and during the initial beginning of the down stroke of the piston.
Hi Ken, i've been an auto mechanic and aircraft mechanic for many years and have been approaching this thing rather skeptically myself. I don't think this is water vapor alone. I did a crude but adequate experiment in a 5 gallon bucket and the bubbles ignited, albeit weakly because of their close proximity to open atmosphere. Also, I believe most of the water vapor in these little systems is captured in the cell and also by the bubbler (by adhesion to water already in the bubbler) leaving hydrogen and oxygen for the most part going to the engine. I suppose a test for water vapor at the final output would be a good idea to see how much actually gets there. either way, i don't think there would be enough water to be the primary source of increased efficiency, or to cause the need for stainless valves as i've heard some mention.
What does adding water have to do with this discussion. Read the post Mr ASE 34 years. Big deal.
I ran a number of the Holley water injection systems back in the 80's. All they did and claim to was inject a water alcohol mixture wich would slow combustion to eliminate pinging which is just what they did with a mild 10.5/1 engine. Nothing more.
My biggest concern with these plans is storing hydrogen in pressure tanks. Yes, cars can run on hydrogen, we know that. We also know that hydrogen like other fuels will burn or even explode. I'm not to sure how good I feel with the idea of having two or three pressurized hydrogen tanks attached right behind where my 10 month old daughter will be riding in the car. If someone were to crash into your car in hit a pressurized tank of hydrogen, wouldn't that almost be the same as setting a bomb off in your car? This could be another reason why the US Gov may be closing sites like these. It could definitely save you money on gas if installed correctly, but there are other factors to consider other than just saving money on gas. Safety being one of them.
... you realize that H^2 is safer than gas right? the pressurized gas will rise and dissipate within a few seconds after a STANDARD tank is ruptured. however, these tanks release h2 once heated to a point (don't ask me how it works... I just read the site). gas on the other hand will spread over the ground and will burn underneath the car if the tank is ruptured and their is a spark.
i don't think it no diffrant than you having a full tank of gas or a car that runs off propane.
Uhmmm...you are currently driving your car with your infant child in a car that has an explosive liquid in a tank....that you pay through the nose
ken you made a very good point however these are not water vapor injection kits. these turn the water into hydrogen gas. hydrogen, unlike the water it comes from, compresses quite easily and does not increase the compression ratio the reason for the advanced timing is that hydrogen burns much much more quickly the gasoline. this prevents the expanding gases from slipping by the valves, and causing the breakdown that luke warren experienced in his Audi a4.
Advancing the timing even more with faster burning hydrogen (faster burning than straight gasoline) is obviously the wrong thing to do. Advancing the timing would cause a backwards push on the piston before it even reached the top-could even bend a rod and/or cause engine stall not to mention what it would be doing to the rod bearings. Luke Warren may not have adjusted his timing towards top dead center or after top dead center and the internal pressure inside the cylinder went through the roof because the explosion occurred before the piston reached the top (the engine rotating one way and the explosion pushing the piston the other way all of a sudden). Also the device to make pure hydrogen or HHO (as some call the water to hydrogen device), cannot dump straight water into the engine. Any water entering the engine must be in the form of a very fine mist (and very little at that). Dumping straight water inside a rotating engine's intake will warp valves, knock the top out of pistons, bust cylinder walls or bend rods! Expanding gases slipping by the valves? Sounds like defective valves if this was the case.
There are several sites that give away free plans on the net. Don't know if it is proper to give out these URLs or not here, so I will just say that you can search then read the sites over to locate the free stuff. Google search "free hydrogen boost plans" or "free alternative fuel ebooks " or something like that. I found them so you can surely find them. Slow down and research the subject before deciding to spend hard earned dollars on a system and maybe make a mistake that will ruin your expensive ride! I'm sure gasoline/diesel prices will stay up so you've got time. Take it from another ASE certified Master Tech (ASE is not the only certification either), make SURE you know EXACTLY how a gasoline or diesel engine works THEN THINK EVERY STEP THRU before doing anything. From what I've gathered so far this stuff is real but misinformation and mistakes can be very costly, huh Luke.
Because hydrogen can ignite before the compression stage (pre-ignition) you need custom injectors to prevent pre-ignition from traveling back up the intake manifold. The sales of kits imply you can switch back and forth between gas and hydrogen. This would be problematic to inexperienced Green Consumers and so the conversions need a bit more tweaking, and underwriters lab testing.
I have only begun to research the feasibility of these HHO systems. However, I have been a mechanic for more than 40 years. I must disagree with those who believe that water injection is a bad thing. I built and installed a water injection system on a 1968 Plymouth Valiant. It utilized roughly 10% as much water as fuel. Gas mileage increased minimally, because I didn't make the effort to make the air/fuel ratio leaner. A small amount of water entering the combustion chamber has the same effect as using a more dense air charge. It converts to steam in the combustion process, increases the thrust of the power stroke, and cleans deposits. If these HHO generators will truly produce a combustible gas, then as one of the "Snake-oil-salesmen" stated, you will need to modify the computer system to allow a leaner exhaust or there will be very little, if any, gain in fuel economy. The vehicle's computer gets a signal from the O2 sensor, in the exhaust stream, which tells it how to control the A/F ratio. It will not sense anything from the addition of HHO to the mixture because it reacts only to carbon and oxygen, generating a small electrical output proportionate to the ratio of CO & O2 that it is exposed to. (at operating temp.) Therefore, if you do not trick your on-board computer into thinking that the A/F ratio is correct and allow you to deliver a lean mixture, it will tell the fuel injection system to send the same amount of fuel that it normally would. This would cause a ratio to be over-rich due to the introduction of a second combustible gas into the A/F stream.
You are barking up the same tree of concern that I am. The newer cars have short and long term fuel trims that will take some type of programming to compensate for the introduction of fuel into the combustion process and could cause problems.
John, What about a dummy O2 sensor. I installed one of these on a truck that I put dual exhaust on for more power. Couldnt you trick the computer with that.
I know that at least some of the full conversion kits out there are bypassing the car's computer when their system is in use... at least in using their own electronics for fuel control. The one i'm thinking of designs for specific models which could indicate that they are actually engineering model-specific bypass electronics. I don't know if that includes tweeking injector timing or not, but i imagine it would need to as you're basically saying yourself.
why do people insist on comparing hydrogen gas to water injection...? Hydrogen gas is GAS and water injection has to do with WATER. Lets say that some small amount of water/ humidity vapor actually does reach the engine with the hydrogen gas... what do you think the effect would be? if we take what we know about water injection and apply it we should expect a slight reduction in cylinder temperature and slight increase in pressure. generally speaking those are benefits.. water injection works because the pressure increase is offset by temperature reduction.
I for one advocate the use of HHO or even pressurized pure hydrogen. But first one should know how to correctly do the conversions to prevent damage to costly equipment. If, for instance, one allows straight water to siphon from a HHO device into the cylinder(s), engine damage may result. I am not talking about the water you will ultimately inject with a properly set up HHO system since a little water vapor is good. Just like a rainy day enhances engine performance, so will injection somehow of water VAPOR. Straight non-vaporized water SIPHONED into a cylinder can destroy the engine for several reasons and everyone should know that when installing and operating one of these devices-think, do it right or don't do it at all if you are mechanically challenged (until you learn the ins and outs of an internal combustion engine, that is). PURE PRESSURIZED HYDROGEN burns at a different rate than gasoline. Engine ignition timing is very critical to prevent damage to the engine! Learn about engine controlling computers and their sensors (for instance, like the O2 sensor) and what to do there for these conversions to be successful. By all means do everything you can to relieve this gasoline/diesel price thing but be smart and don't destroy a $5-10,000 engine doing it. $10,000 will buy 2500 gallons of $4.00 per gallon gasoline which will take you 50,000 miles if your vehicle currently gets 20 miles per gal. Think about it! Our Government will be no help, waiting on car manufacturers for fuel efficient/alternative fueled cars (not everyone could afford these anyway) and big oil for alternative fuels will take years or never happen in most of our lifetimes. The way I see it, the shoe is now on our own foot to get fully involved (including govt. changes-we need new faces throughout Washington and the nation), create new ways to provide energy and refrain from following the same old status quo in regards to big oil, automotive manufacturers and others. Gona junk your car without a trade in and buy a new one every 3-4 years like you technically have to do with you PC? Nope, that'll never happen because common wages prohibit it, to think otherwise is ludicrous.
I think this will happen regardless. Some vapor will be created because in a closed environment with an explosion where Hydrogen and Oxygen is present..water will be created (2*H2 + 02= 2*H2O). Which as you stated is good for reducing temperature and increased pressure.
... OK so there is legit pro's and con's to all sides of the fence. It might blow up your engine, it will give 80MPG.... etc..etc..etc. Here's the truth. There is NOTHING stopping the price at the pump from reaching $10/gallon. Its an industry with NO competitors... which is a problem. Who cares about safety when you can't afford to eat? My Pyshc 101 class told me Safety is last human need. Food and shelter being the first. I don't care what it is....even if it cost $5/gallon... there needs to be a competitor to the oil industry. Its a world-wide monopoly and nothing is being done about it. I don't want to see our oil companies put of business.... thats' not right either, but they need competition. If faced with legit pressure they will push car companies to increase fuel efficiency, lower their own production cost, and it will end up being a win/win for everyone. We don't need to "replace" oil. We just to divide up the market share across several legit competitors that make up maybe 40% of the fuel market. Oil can keep 60% instead of the 99.9% they enjoy now.
I enjoyed this, though I'm not altogether sure that the articles I read indicated injecting the amount of water these people were talking of. But this is the only back and forth discussion that I have found and the first that tried to approach the question of a possible solution. It is amazing though that the fellow who had actually installed the device made me think that he might be someone salting the mine. I''ll be back; I'm very interested in this.
RICH. I have been researching this info for about 6 months now and decided to try to build 1 or 2. did the simple one with the 2 electrodes and baking soda with distilled water in 2-2L bottles,1 hyd. other Oyx in a 5 gal. bucket. this produced so much hydrogen that the hyd. bottle started lifting out of the bucket to where i had to weight it down with bricks. and it did burn, super fast. I am now building the hotsabi booster that uses S.S. parts and lye mixed in distilled water. testing it when I hooked up my 18volt drill battery to it it started bubbling violently which I figure is great. It means its producing hydrogen and oxy at a good rate, big bubbles were oxy. and smaller bubbles were hyd/. I'm now building the unit per plans to see what happens. The hardest part is making the containers absolutely air tight. Will keep you informed on my progress. going to try to seperate the oxy and hyd. so that I use only the hyd. as fuel. Do you guys think it will work or have any ideas that might work better?
hello, i have built one of these my self and curently testing on my car, havent modified the car its self just added this and already ive noticed a difference, you said you where trying to make the bottles air tight, there are 2 ways i have found to work best. 1. you can use gasket sealer/maker to seal the bottles, 2. you can use 5 min epoxy, only problem with epoxy though is it gets hard and can crack after a while. any other glues ive used dont seem to hold well (super glue, krazy glue, hot glue..ect) well i hope this helps you.
Rich, i was interested in your post. I'm also in the proccess of building a generator and using stainless for the "guts". Let me know what's happening with your project. Some of these ignorant yahoo's in these post don't have a clue about whats going on in the real world of experimenting with generators. They only can talk about what they THINK or what they have HEARD. Why can"t we get some people with hands on experience to come in and talk. Also I'm wondering why you want to seperate the H from the O because we can use the O as oxidixer for the fuel H in the same way were using air as an oxidizer for the atomized gasoline in the standard internal combustion engine? Thanks, and any response will be answered. Responding to comment #64
Well, I guess I should admit that you lost me with your technical mechanical/speak. I do want to thank those posters who insist on correct spelling and placement of apostrophes. What I want to know is, how to achieve this for the common man without Big Oil and the government going fascist on us? Will this become a feature of an underground economy and the cops stopping us for suspected hydrogen usage? And, most importantly, will it work in a meaningful way, enough to get our kids out of Iraq and prevent a stupid economic incursion into Iran?
The way I view the Government is pretty close to how I view big oil-very dim. I am speaking of both parties of Govt. At this point in their game and with gasoline going up almost daily, what they say and what's real is two different things- bet the cops trying to live off their salaries will agree. We've been lied to and are being lied to about the true reason for Iraq-and again, by both parties. Iraq is a centrally located country in the Middle East and really separates Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc. from Syria, Iran, etc. The real reason for Iraq is likely because someone like Bin Laden might have been influential enough to get Iraq, Syria, Iran, etc. to go against Saudi Arabia, Kuait, Egypt, etc. and take over all of OPEC. $20.00+ per gallon gas and widespread gas shortages in the USA would have caused a major long termed depression or worse (probably worse). Weapons of mass destruction was only a smoke screen but worked long enough to get us fully involved. This info was provided to Democrats, Republicans and Independents alike so all the hollering by the various current Presidential candidates is too a smoke screen-it worked before, why not again. Remember, some of the negative talk about HHO on the internet might just be another of these smoke screens. Producer gas from wood chips and such is a reality, and has been for decades (it was successfully used in Europe during WWII). Producer gas contains a form of hydrogen similar to what is produced by the HHO devices. Our Government even published an article some years back (about the time of the last gasoline mess) on emergency use of producer gas for vehicular travel. If you search the net real thoroughly under "producer gas" or "producer gas from wood" etc., you can find free downloads of that Govt. article which contains plans for making a working model.
What is the purpose of NEUTRAL PLATES? Does anyone have information on that. Are they used as some sort of buffer? i have been seening pro's and con's on using them regarding hydrogen output. What is different with or without using them. thanks!
Hooking the electrical wires to the same plate would probably yield nothing because the current would essentially bypass the water and there would occur the same as a short in the wires. The plates provide a buffer of sorts between the positive and negative connections but also give up hydrogen and oxygen to a certain extent because the water is fully carrying the current between the outside plates. For electrical reasons, I would be skeptical about any system that says that tap water can be used-minerals in tap water could produce a short of sorts or at least require high amperage input (distilled water does not carry electrical current well but impurities & minerals in regular water does)!
As a matter of fact, if the neg. plate and the positive plate are in really close proximity to each other, it seems that amperage requirements would increase. Multiple plates electrically separated (except thru the water) would possibly yield approx half them emitting hydrogen and the other half oxygen because of their proximity to the respective negative and positive connections (outside plates), and at a lower amperage draw depending on the water or solution used.
I'd like to hear an informed opinion from someone who doesn't think the government is out to get them.
I am not in the least worried by the Government. IF those sites were shut down by the Government, there was most likely an underlying reason you may never learn about (such as the new spam laws etc.). If you live in California or other places like that, local or State Government may be a problem if your car emits even more pollutants AFTER you install one of these devices (electronics causes the engine to run rich etc.) By the way, free plans can be found by Google search for the term "smack's booster". Maybe folks with an older vehicle (I wouldn't start with my only ride or a high dollar vehicle) can use these plans to experiment with. Knowledge Publications has a website that sells books about all kinds of energy including hydrogen powered vehicles. They sent me an email just this morning saying there was so much traffic to their site that the server crashed (they are trying to get the server back up now so you might just receive a copy of that email if you check them before the server's up)! They made a joke in the email about the Govt shutting them down too. The heat on Govt officials is rising. They're finding out what 300 million disgruntled citizens with one voice is like! Keep the pressure on!!!! Don't forget the Wall Street millionaires/billionaires, find ways to apply the pressure there too. Fear the Government? NOT ME because I'm far from being in this boat alone.
I am not worried about the Government either. In fact, i don't believe its a government issue. Its a market issue. We need to stop being the cry babies and be the people who invent our way out of this problem. Previous poster is right, don't do an experiment on your only car or an Audi!!! Duh! Would you test a new drug on your completely healthy child? However, we are surrounded by morons, so Government must protect these people. A lot of people are looking at way they personally can benefit. Well, I think we should look at the big picture. How about contributing to the science to reduce consumption in public trans, or school buses, trains, etc. What about lawncare? Imagine a summer using only 2 gallons of gas???? Small things can go a long way. By trying to take down the personal auto..... we're throwing rocks at army tanks. Not going to do much damage. It would be much easier to get someone to use a hydrogen powered mower. Plus, I believe it could be more profitable for anyone willing to jump in. Also someone who's willing to educate and certify techs all over the country on alternative fuel vehicle converting. Has to be big bucks in that? Or an auto shop that does the converting? Selling alternative fuels??? You won't need a huge network like gas stations to help local people use hydrogen or any other alternative fuel to power their other equipment. So to summarize.... let's put the focus on things other than cars.... and perfect the technology than move to the monster once we have full knowledge and power.
I don't know if this makes sense, but here it goes (I'm not a mechanic). There was a discussion about how the O2 sensor works. Could there or should there be a seperate HHO sensor in the exhaust to sense this as well so you don't damage your engine. Would this mean that the computer would have to know about HHO? Please, let's keep this going!!!
I have not seen any mention of the key problem with high preassure hydrogen.. i.e. when the preassure drops dramaticcally the take up of heat in the air around it causes instantaneuous combustion. During training in the UK we are taught that a simple test with newsprint around the neck of a leaking h2 cylinder will catch fire as the leaking gas that is burning invisibly sets the paper off. This phenomina was common in county halls when balloons where filled with hydrogen instead of hellium in an older time. People would crack open the cylinders to check they had gas in them and hear the whoosh of gas released but not see the flame, but evidence was always visible on the ceilings after the event. This will not put me off using h2 but will stop me using stored high preassure gas, I will be looking to use gas produced on demand or as near to as possible.
i bought plans water for gas and my neighbor bought the hydrogen boost system I already experimented with some 1 liter bottles and was able to lite the gas.however if fire is allowed to travel back to the cell it will explode.I took ome 403 stainless steal pipe .you want to use nonmagnetic pipe so it will not corrode away with the sodium hydroxode works to make the hydrogen.you build ur cell and add sodium hydroxide till you get the amps up on ur distilled water.as far as ur gas you put a 50 ohm variable resistor on ur mass aor flow sensor and dial back the thing till ur car loses power hence cutting back on injectd fuel.the hydrogen gas takes up the slack on the gas u cut back on.now the problem im having is i cant see if its working i dont have a scan gauge.with that in mind i need to get one.anyway what u want to do is get one liter of gas per minute for a 4 cylinder car.the oxygen sensor unplug it.what u want to do is rig a microswith on ur throttle so ur only making gas after u accerlerate.you dont want to be making gas if ur car isnt running.im willing to share any information i can on this subject.the way i see it opec is horny and im gonna fjjk them.lol
r u in the uk i would like to put some questions to u thanxs craig
[...] and are asking how can I "drive on water", you might want to check out this link, from the comments here it's looking like we might be able to drive on water (partly at least). That's till the gas goes [...]
WOODY, PLEASE GIVE US UPDATES ON YOUR PROJECT, YOUR IDEAS SOUND THE MOST LOGICAL OUT OF EVERYTHING I HAVE READ. ALSO THERE IS SO MUCH TALK ABOUT CONVERTING AN ENGINE WITH EFI. IT SEEMS THAT A DIESEL ENGINE OR A CARBURATED ENGINE WOULD BE THE WISE CHOICE TO PERFECT THIS IDEA. HAVE YOU TRIED APPLYING HYDROGEN TO THESE OTHER APPLICATIONS? THANKS
A long time shop owner friend of mine & I have been playing with this & found that on post 96 autos you may have a computor problem. It seems easier to install on a TBI car(my 91 Saturn single cam)I feel that in the next five years you will see real advances in a free market regardless of big oil and self serving goverment.
[...] DIY - Convert Your car to use Hydrogen Today [...]
As previously mentioned, this is not new technology, it has been tried and rejected in the past. It keeps getting trotted out every time there is a gasoline/oil shortage or oil prices go through the roof. Standard internal combustion engines will burn hydrogen or "Brown's Gas". The problem is that these small scale units will not produce sufficient hydrogen in the quantity needed to run a car. If you don't believe me do the math to calculate the volume of gas produced per second, then do the math ( or run your car on purchased hydrogen to get empirical data) and compare. There are numerous efforts going on that convert standarad internal combustion engines to run on hydrogen or on the so called "Brown's Gas". There are a lot of successful conversions - these all work on highly compressed pre-made stored gases. This is where the "onboard water" systems all fail. The quantity of gas required cannot be practically generated and compressed by the advertised onboard systems. Fuel Cell technology on the other hand works and works well. It is in use in various places to generate electricity where price does not matter (ie: gov't and military sites). But once more, the Fuel Cell technology is nearly impossible for the home-tinkerer to build and is not yet cost effective. But hey - it's your money, blow it where you want to.
thank goodness somebody actually knows what they're talking about and not spreading the propaganda of on board electrolysis. I've read through this thread and have been sorely disappointed in the copious lack of good knowledge offered. some seem to be very interested and even attempting hydrogen conversions. I've been doing extensive research for over a year now, read many books and talked to lots of people on this subject. i strongly urge everybody to properly educate themselves in this subject. We need as many people as possible to know the truths of alternative fuels and cannot afford false information to divide and dilute us. so please, anybody who reads this thread visit the knowledge publications website and order the multi fuel dvd and a few books. after reviewing at least the dvd with a few friends i beleive that you would have made an incredible impact.
hey Doc, The little Onboard water systems are not intended to "be" compressed systems nor to "run the car".. so not sure how they're failing in the sense you say. The average home-tinkerer is only trying provide a low pressure supplement to increase fuel economy....and are getting results from what i have seen. If a 20% increase in fuel economy for $150 dollars is coming up as a waste of money on your calculator...then maybe you're hitting a wrong button.
A friend of mine has three cars with this on them that he made in his garage.He got 53 miles to a gallon of gas on his ford explorer.He also blew his garage up twice trying to get it right.But it does work and he has got it right.He has now started making thes for neighbors for free.
Larry did you buy your parts from the man in Houston, tx? or did you build it from the run your car on water manual? thanks gary
Dude! Awesome! Any guess at the ballpark estimate and the materials? I'm going to try to build this: http://www.fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/FEV-hydrogen-generator-build-one.php and contrary from what people have said, this one does run a vehicle with ought gas.
on board electrolysis cannot make a substantial difference to the performance of your vehicle. your alternator cannot even produce 5% of the BTU value of your air-fuel mixture. One would need approximatly 5 alternators running full capacity to produce enough hydrogen to make the combustion more efficient. but once you have all these alternators sucking horsepower you lose all the benefits of the hydrogen produced. the inexpensive electrolysis cell you make is at best 10% efficient, so its impossible to produce a significant quantity of hydrogen in this fashion. do not beleive this scam. There are methods of effectively supplementing your air fuel mixture with hydrogen, but onboard electrolysis is once again not the answer, even if you buy an expensive PEM cell operating at 75% efficiency it still wont work. i hope we can transcend this misconception and start pursuing real solutions.
Ok i am some what of a good midnight engineer, i purchased the plans from run your car on water,I have read through them. I know how the separation of hydrogen works. I intend to build and install the equipment to SUPLIMENT MY GAS ECONOMY! key words here! your wrong it doesn't require a lot of power. Buy the directions read page 12 try to understand it better before you put your self out there!
Hello, Larry, I think it's great of your friend to help his neighbors out! I would like to get some help building a hydrogen generator for my car; also, how do you deal with keeping the hydrogen/oxygen separated-as I've always heard that they explode when accidentally combined??? Any help I can receive will be most welcome. Also, I'd like to talk to your neighbor about his kits. Thanks, Bobby
Ok, so I use energy from the engine- via the alternator- to break water down into hydrogen and oxygen. Then I inject the hydrogen into the engine to burn it. All those who think there is a net gain of energy in this process may sign up for remedial physics. When you burn hydrogen in the presence of air you get water. In any significant amounts your engine will be very unhappy.
All you nay-saying physisists chiming in here have your noses too stuck in the books. We are not creating energy from nothing (breaking the first law of thermodynamics). The battery is producing a fuel from a substance (water). The battery is being recharged (partially) by that fuel. Why not - after assisting in starting the car it (the battery) isn't doing much else except being recharged by the alternator.
i just did this on board electrolysis to my car, i have not modified the car at all except to drill a hole in the intake and run a tube into it. i havent gotten to do the exact milage yet (to come soon) but normally it takes me about 1/4th tank to get to work and back home. after doing this it now takes me about 1/8th tank. meaning double fuel mileage so far. i tried the on demand way wich was to hook it up to turn on with the car, that did do something but not much. what im doing now is i have it hooked to a seperate switch and turn it on about 3 min b4 i start the car, gives the hho system time to start and get presureized/primed b4 the car starts, also gets some hho into the intake and i think tricks the sensor there some how? (yes you have to have some presure in there for it to work or it just simply wont go any where. but that dosnt mean you need a jet sprayer and pump either) ill post my mileage as soon as i get it to you. happy experementing :-)
All you need to do is figure the output of your alternator and compare it to the cfms your engine moves at average rmps and figure the 14.7:1 ratio in and compare the BTUs. The output of the on board electrolysis is negligible. Once again I'm a huge advocate of alternative fuels, but we need to get real. If anybody else has seen the DVD from knowledge publications or read any books on hydrogen production, I need some backup. And for those of you who haven't educated yourself in depth, do so now.
We have cars in India, Bombay and many metropolitant cities running on both CNG & gaoline together before local mechanic used to make the changes but now u can get the manufacturers with this pre installed and can run on both, 100% of taxi in Bombay now called mumbai run on this technology, the company name is Fiat cars even Maruti Suzuki makes CNG & Gasoline running in single car if this is help ful need more info can contact rajbdave@gmail.com
I met a guy that is working on a hydrogen from water conversion system. He wants to market it specifically for diesel motors for use in vehicles like UPS trucks. Obviously one unit of water is going to have a specific measure of hydrogen. What varies is the speed at which you can create the hydrogen. You can set up an electrolysis test and measure the rate at which your system is producing hydrogen. That's what this guy did. He also used electrolytes to improve his system. Instead of a tank he uses a bag to fill with water so you can easily put it in any nook in the engine compartment. He uses an upgraded, higher amp alternator. Also, he has added a device that shuts the electricity off to the system for safety. There's a valve that prevents back pressure as well. The air goes into the air intake. To overcome the problem with timing, he has a company making chips (like diesel performance chips) those cost about $300. So his system is expensive. Each chip has to be custom made for each car's fuel and ignition system. He says it absolutely works and is completely safe. It does not use a tank to store hydrogen rather makes hydrogen on the fly.
This is thermodynamically impossible. How could you produce enough hydrogen on demand with power from the engine to produce enough extra torque to get you down the road. it boils down to the fact that even a high amperage alternator yields a negligible amount of hydrogen and energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Even for a hydrogen boosted system, the amount produced is not nearly enough to make a difference. Oh and a "bag" electrolysis system would be awful. High pressure, heat, and a small gap between electrodes is what yields efficient electrolysis of water, and a sack does none of these well.
The bag fills the tank where the eloctrodes are. -- I was talking to a friend yesterday and we talked about Newtons law which I believe says that separating the hydrogen and oxygen requires x amount of energy and the combusion of the hydrogen generates y amount of energy so either x=y or x>y because of the enificiency of combustion engines. This made sense. To me, what this means is that the alternator is going to drag on the engine taking horsepower at either the same rate as the hydrogen is adding to horsepower or less, therefore it's possible it could produce less horsepower. I don't know if there is a direct comparison to the friction from the alternator to produce energy thus separating the hydrogen from the added combustion in the cylinders. What him and I concluded is that the added efficiency and power doesn't come from the hydrogen and oxygen itself, rather combined with the combustible fuel of gasoline or diesel, the added gasses improve the efficiency of the fuel. Someone needs to do a chemical breakdown and prove that the molucules could actually improve the efficiency of the fuel. That's where the answer lies, I think.
there are very few things in this world that yield 100% efficiency, and a naturally aspirated, low compression homogeneous charge motor is definitely not one. The electrolysis of water itself is not efficient when "off the shelf" materials are used. so no, the engine produced hydrogen will not produce more hydrogen for the engine. after the regime of efficiencies necessary for EFFECTIVE on board electrolysis the efficiency gain on the motor does not compensate.
eli your letting your intelligence get to your head the local news station installed this device into one of there own vehiles and the car had a 45% increase in fuel savings this is a news station that investigates scams the proof is in the pudding who cares about your laws of physics the hydrogen helps the gas ignite more efficently helping the gas provide better horse power its not that the hydrogen is moving the cylinders its like adding a giant spark plug!! Got it!! Its widely known that the gasoline engine is very inefficent hydrogen burns much quicker helping the "gasoline" burn completely. Leave the math at home if your so skeptical than why do you keep coming to the site? Im going to convert my 25 horse honda that runs my pressure washer which uses 20 dollars of gasoline every three hours to run on a hybrid of natural gas and hydrogen i will let you know how that goes its going to take awhile for me to afford the conversion im converting the things that cost me the most fuel for my biz which is the pressure washers at 50 dollars a day. Just the conversion to natural gas will save me enough money to make a difference have fun debating yourself eli.
its entirely true that hydrogen acts as an ignition catalyst, i know this, and i also know that hydrogen can offer up 30% increases in thermal efficiency. This is reported from the national hydrogen association, who has been successfully converting ICEs to partial and pure hydrogen since the 60s. It has been found by them that to achieve this benefit, you NEED to match 5-7% of the BTU content with hydrogen. Is it not unreasonably to think that less than that would be negligible. Who cares about the laws of physics??... people who know what they are talking about. With false information being propagated (like on this forum) somebody who understands these principles needs more than "it works" to believe it. If i saw the dyno numbers at the dyno, in real time, or drove one of these cars, then maybe. In fact, im a professional machinist, i'll fabricate one using better than off the shelf materials, and i'll just have to go ahead and waste my time disproving it physically, because people cant seem to understand why it so obviously CANT WORK!! and how does your CNG pressure washer relate to your argument at all? i would enjoy debating something important, but all i seem to get on this forum are un informed arguments.
Ahem! The physicists and engineers (like me) on this site are saying it is possible.
Mac i agree...hes is stuck in his skeptical sense in proving why it does not work. I could prove the Earth is flat if used whatever math I wanted...but that does not disprove the math that does prove the earth round. My point is, ELI, dont prove how and why this cant work....prove why it does work. Its worked on several testimonials( which are admittedly negligible since it is the internet afterall) but its been shown on newscasts and I personally got a 63% increase in mpg.