DIY - Convert Your car to use Hydrogen Today
Posted on Fri May 5 2006
The United Nuclear Hydrogen Fuel System Kit converts your existing vehicle to run on Hydrogen.
Complete hydrogen conversion kits will soon be available for various late-model cars & trucks as well as individual system components for those who choose to assemble their own kits.
Included in the kits (and also available separately) is our solar powered Hydrogen Generator that manufactures the Hydrogen fuel for your vehicle at virtually zero cost. Simply put, you never have to buy Gasoline again.
Since there are no major changes made to your engine, you can still run your vehicle on Gasoline at any time.
We now have over 50,000 trouble-free miles on our prototype vehicles which are using hydrogen conversion kits. We are currently fleet-testing our systems and are in final preparation for sales to the general public.
OH WAIT THE US GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO CLOSE THE COMPANY DOWN... WHY IN THE HELL????
We've been able to find a conversion manual for purchase here and recently we've found a two book set on how to convert your car to run on water, you can find it here.
137 Comments so far!!
Haha... You wish.....
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It's real... I almost bought a kit, but right as I was about to finish the deal, the gov shut down the site. sometimes I hate being an American.
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I don't understand. According to the websites, plans etc. you can buy this stuff at your local hardware store. Why not just buy the plans and do it yourself?
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No clue...
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Hi: I have a comment about all of this. If this is so great, why can't you just flush your gas tank, fill it up with water and use this system to power your car. I understand you need to converter, to convert water to hydrogen, but it seems to me that if you could just fill your gas tank up with water, you could drive for a year or longer with the water in the tank.
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I don't think you understand how this system works. The conversion kits has its only tank you have to install in your vehicle. It does not allow you to run the car on 100% Hydrogen. The system is just adding hydrogen to the engine along with the normal gas you run the vehicle on. This system has a mixing valve that allows some Hydrogen as well as your normal fuel to burn in the engine. The system is rugulated so you end up burning more hydrogen that Gasolene. The gasolene is then routed back into the fuel tank. You end up using about 30% lest gas because of this mixing process. For some reason people think your are running the cars engine on just water alone. That is not the case.
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Mark your idea is fantastic. Try it on your car, and let us if it works, however I promise you that in a matter of SHORT time we as a nation will come very close.
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i have altered my 75 ford truck with a homeade hydrogen fuel cell i made from
4 stainless steel wall switch plates
2 12 inch threaded 1/4 inch rods
1 half gallon plastic jug with screw off lid
3/8 inch hose
auto wire with fuse
i've sold 4 and they work great
i cut my fuel consumption in half
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could you tell me how to do this?
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i know some people
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Hey John, do you have a schematic that could illustrate all of this, it sounds absolutely great.
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Would you mind sharing your plans with us?
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can you email me how to roughly do this please ?
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NOt to mention the water would rust your tank.
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Mike,
Did the guy send you his DIY design?
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John-
I would really like to know more about your device please e-mail me with details.
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keep in mind also, that many state governments get most of their tax money from fuel sales. I live in south carolina and it has one of the lowest gas tax in the nation yet it gets around 80% of its revenue from gas tax
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Well John, since you haven't replied back to anyone asking for your help in building their own hydrogen system, you must be full of shift!!!!!!!!!!
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john, I am very interested in making my vehicle like yours. Could you send me some details about how you wired it up?
--- Bob ---
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Ok, everybody. There is no such thing as perpetual motion, ect. You make hydrogen/HHO by using electrical energy to split the water. The amount of energy in the hydrogen IS ALWAYS LESS than in the electricity used to make it. This could work if the electricity was made from an outside source, such as solar power, although you would need a lot of solar panals to make a difference.
One thing that will NEVER work is making Hydrogen/HHO from the electricity in the car battery. This electricity is made from the engine. The electricity from the engine is ALWAYS LESS than the amount of energy you would get by using the elctricity to make hydrogen (you keep about 50%-80%), then burning it (you keep about 10%-30%, the rest is lost).
HHO is NOT "easily made" from water, it takes MORE ELECTRICITY than burning it could ever make. People who say I am wrong will claim that the first law of Thermodynamics is wrong. Good luck.
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You are one of the millions who have yet to learn to think for yourself. The same scientific community that taught you that also taught you that carbon 14 dating is accurate!
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John, I have a hydrogen generator in my truck 98 chev , and without a way to bypass or fool the sensors all it does ia put hydrogen in the intake and when run at 15 amps I got 26 mpg without an effie , but the terminals melted ... too many amps
How to fool the computer??
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ok Genius,
My friend built a SMALL 5 plate H generator ( he found that 6 plates was inefficient w/ his stock alternator) and not on did his Ranger truck run smoother with a little better pick, up his fuel mileage increased by 2-3 m in city and 5-7 on highway.There is more to themodynamics than a single aspect. ---Bob--
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According to the demos I've seen, unless you've got a weak alternator, yer average car battery will have plenty of juice to convert your HHO, run your stereo, blast your AC, and still have some to spare. Voltage regulators are limiting the amount of charge to your battery so it doesn't overcharge.
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No..this is not an add on hydrogen to your gasoline system. I believe this is a pure hydrogen injected at 30 PSI into the engine. Hydrogen is more potent than gas therefore makes better power and cleaner. That's why the govt shut it down cause the oil companys would go out of business! The scam HHO systems have an onboard converters, this on is a fill up and solar electricity makes and stores the gas, then you fill up a tank in the car and you use the hydrogen as fuel.
That's my 2 cents. Oh, by the way, a small onboard HHO generator will NOT cut your fuel consumption in half! Sorry
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[...] read more | digg story [...]
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if this is really the case please send me the info. I would like to send it to one of my multi Billion dollar companies. Maybe they can take the fight. Here or over seas and let it be an import to the USA.
HAVE you tried Ross Pero
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[...] If so, maybe you need to pick up one of these hydrogen conversion kits. Availible for most late model cars, these kits use a combination of hydrogen and solar power to drive you where you need to go. Why haven’t you heard of this earlier? Probably because the government is trying to shut the company down. Yay for fat wallets… [...]
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[...] oh ya the US goverment is trying to shut down the company… wonder why… I’m so sick of this political bsread more | digg story Posted in Hydrogen Cars [...]
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[...] With the car companies taking sweet time to come up with alternative fuel vehicles that are affordable for the general public. We’ve covered previously DIY - Convert Your car to use Hydrogen Today and now we bring you a story of Art Haines who has taken upon himself and his students to build the solar car for the average Joe. He’s now offering the solar DIY car kit that gives everyone a chance to live the dream of driving for free, causing no pollution. [...]
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Well hydrogen conversions are easy to do. Just make a fuel cell(i suggest an aaron cell design) and connect the output to the motors intake by bypassing the carborator and most of the airfilter by drilling a hole in the filters side and put a tube through to prevent H2 O fuel from entering the filter. And yes the goverment is against it for 2 reasons it is not safe if done improperly as H2 O is verry explosive and flamable. Also it hurts the economy by decreasing fuel sales. And with a large enough generator, a good H2 and O balance, and slight injectors and other engine changes can give you 100% powered by hydrogen.
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My brother tried this product and its a gimmick. He did everything the right way with his air filter and carborator. He modified his injectors. Started up the car(05 Audi A4 with Direct Injection), then engine made a loud pop inside.We later found out his engine block cracked open. The car engine was totally destroyed. Thats why the government is trying to shut these engine destroyers down. Because its a product that robs people of their money and their vehicle engines.
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you are an idiot the system has been tested by channel 12 news and reported gains of 45% fuel economy your bro scrwed up there are many cars that run on hydrogen maybe your bro used the wrong catalyst produced chlorine gas I would suggest using a cheap throw away car until you perfect your system then intro system to your everyday vehicle.
Hydrogen fuel is real get a glass a battery jumper poor some baking soda and water in the glass hook two wires up two positive and negative cables of jumper hook those wires up to two copper scouring pads make sure the pads cant touch each other and light a lighter where the bubbles come out your flame will be three times the size and bluish thats the hydrogen burning sport.
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I agree with marc....you are an IDIOT!!! or work for the oil companies. this fuel cell is catching on big time...myself included and my gas mileage has gone from 26.5 to 43 miles per gallon.
This is not a gimmick. So either you are just lying, did not install it correct.....or did not do enough research to build the fuell cell correctly.
If you are not lying..... the only way you get a 'boom' is if you did not secure the positive and negative plates....if they touch they will short out or possibly create a spark and ignite the hydrogen
But guess what? having gasoline in your car is pretty dangerous to begin with...remember the pintos that blew up whenever they got rear ended? My point is as long as things are engineered with safety in mind...nothing should go wrong.
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Oli... its not a fuel cell, careful who you call idiot
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Wow, that's awesome that your brother's car had fuel injectors AND a "carborator" what an awesome car.
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um... sory to tell you this but an engine either have injectors or a carberator. It will NEVER have both. the reason you trashed your engine is because you didn't adjust the valve timing!!
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Does any one know witch way to adjust the timing? Hydrogen makes your car run lean so do you advanse it or retire it.
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I'm sorry, meant to say the ignition timing but the valve timing should be adjusted as well.
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Hey super would you also have to put in stainless steel valves to prevent the engine from rusting?
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Yo, Anewlow!... it's a hydorgen GAS not water vapor. i would think no need for stainless valves,.
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Hydrogen is one of the most corrosive gases out there. YES, you need to use stainless steel.
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Hydrogen gas is what you burn after you burn it you get water vapor. The combustion of hydrogen produces a water vapor exhaust. Heads, valves, valve seats and the entire exhaust system headers to tail pipe will soon corrode and rust away if it all isn't stainless steel or some other such metal.
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You should replace your valves because it does turn in to water upon compression.
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Luke warren sounds like he is talking out his fuel injected carbureted ass
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Is there a company out there that does the hydrogen conversions
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Being in automobile sales, I thought that if I could increase gas mileage I would sell my product with ease. My long time garage owner friend is experimenting with this. It does work, but not to his satisfaction. I gave him an old TBI car to further work on, as these give less problems W/ engine management.When this is perfected we will move on to post 96 autos.We both have the resources to build,and install them.In all honesty they have to be perfect before you can sell it to the public. We hope to have perfection by fall going into the new year for production,and sales.In essence there is no instant success, just honest hard work,with an eye toward tomorrow. Thanx..
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The reason this will never come to be is that the government is making sure it is left to do it yourselfers who normally don't have the common sense to try to understand what they are attempting, therefore they fail at least 5 times out of 10 then bitch about the instructions making most other people who want to try it become afraid of it, that is why the government is comfortable thinking it will never be as lomg as they keep big industry out of it, cost has nothing to do with it, I intend to read all I can find on the subject and will attempt to do it soon. After about 40 years working on the automobile I feel I can accomplish this. Also fuck the governmental agencies who think they can tell average joe what to do.
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The real reason the gov does not want you to have this tech. is because of the deal Henry Kissinger made with the oil producing Country's. 1 must produce oil in us denominations.2 must sell oil at our set price.3.a portion on profit must pay back our national dept. if they agree they will be rich beyond belief. All but to country"s said yes Irac and Iran. in 2000 Iran said they were going to sell oil cheap and they were going to sell in the new Euro .If that happend then all other country's would not have to abide by us standards.all this come back to the national dept. our dollar is really worth 3 cent if we lose those country's paying our national dept. our dollar goes to zero. thanks to the federal res. and you fed gov. this is all so why we went back into Irac we need there oil. that also why I ran is producing a nuck to stop us from coming in to there country. look it up it's all there just research it. and yes the gov knows there are to many stupid people out there that fuck shit up. if you get it right let me know I'm working on one too
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hello dan,you are correct i heard the same from lindsey williams, and i believe this to be the truth. i am searching for some hydrogen unit that will really save alot of gas to.
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How much does this thing cost?
Personally, I am a little cautious about what I do to my car, especially if I don't have clue what it does. However, I do believe hydrogen is the key it getting us off Arab oil.
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If you think about its a small price to pay to see if this works... I mean the price of fuel just reached $110...
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Why do they still have this kind of websites on the internet?
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there's so much crap on the net it's hard to discern real information from misinformation campaigns. Car and oil companies , basically one and the same, hire full time misinformation writers to flood the net with contradictory testimonials. Just like cigerettes, misinformation campaigns keep us with the status quo. Is there a nuetral , reliable source of information?
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There are several websites about converting autos to run on water (hydrogen). All they want to do is sell the instructions to do the conversion. It seems to me that if this really worked, they would sell the kits / hardware along with the instructions. If I saw a kit for sale for a reasonable price I would buy it. But I will not buy just the instructions alone.
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Yeah a lot of websites offer the'manual' to make a fuel cell. Which is a total rip off!!! Yo ucan easily find instructions all over the web. The idea is pretty basic...creat a cell with positive and negative plates in water ( with an electrolyte like salt or baking soda)powered by your car battery...the H2 ( and O2) gas gets vaccummed into the fuel system to make a more explosive gasoline mix.
Works for me...you can also look up cells to buy on ebay. I wouldt buy them from joe schmoe but there are some 'stores' who are dedicated to making these cells as a business
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Ok...I see a lot of people commenting on the hydrogen conversion. I checked out the site and they are selling the info for a limited $49.00 price tag. I'm sure it's not limited. Anyway, it says anyone can do it yet I see posts saying you have to adjust timings etc. and if you don't do it right, you can destroy your engine. Big risk considering. My question is...realistically, how easy is it to do and how easy is it to destroy your engine?
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Hello everyone:
I just purchased one of the very instruction kits that Jay spoke of. I paid for it through the site with my credit card and recieved the EBook immediately (PDF). I'm an engineer and I was fairly bogged down with the depth of what it takes to build this thing. You're basically building this thing from scratch (winding wire around a magnet to build the coil component, build your own circuit board). I mean come on, get real. I was curious and I am educating myself on the subject so I think it was money well spent. I may even read the whole thing at some point. I think this is a great forum. Everyone sounds real interested and intelligent. Let's try to keep it up as long as we can and see if we can get somewhere with this. Between the bunch of us we should be able to put one of these things together. I would certainly recommend trying to find components that are already manufactured (like the coil, electolytic unit, circuit board, etc.). Until, of course, the BIG GOV shuts us down.
I called a canadian company today that supposedly manufactures kits, but they told me that they don't deal with the general puplic. Ecofuel.com
Joe Environmental/Civil Engineer (and Former Mechanic) - Manchester, NH
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Also, I when I talked to the sales staff at that Canadian company (Ecofuel.com) they told me that the EPA has a Certification program for companies wanting to develop/install this aftermarket Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AFV) technology. They are concerned about emissions being worse than with conventional gasoline engine technology. That means joe public (You and Me) are excluded from this bureaucratic cluster unless we have lots of $$$ to invest in research and development to document our technology. Technicians are also supposed to be certified under the EPA program as well. It doesn't sound like you and I will be seeing the benefits of this for some time to come unless some Entreprenaurs out there get creative and don't get greedy at the same time. I would like to hear any input and anyone elses research on the subject. Let's learn from eachother.
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But have you put it together yet? And have you installed it and gotten improved mileage as they all claim. Which company did you order from? Thanks for sharing any more info you might have.
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I also bought this publication,and to buy the housing parts alone,from the company they suggested,you're gonna have at least $400-$500 in Cpvc pipe alone..!!! Have you ever tried to wind a toroid coil with 2000 winds..????! Not an easy job.I do agree with you,that it would be more practical to buy some of the items needed already prefab.
Also,..they are very vague on who to call about the actual needed conversion of a specific vehicle. I shoulda saved my money....UGH..!
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The Government, Wall Street, auto manufacturers (also wall street), big oil and all those billionaires/millionaires smack real loud of fleecing the average Joe out of his money thru oil & hindering all attempts at alternate fuels.
Hydrogen, fuel cell, ethanol and battery/electric technology is very real and has been for decades. Think of all the billions of dollars that would be lost by those millionaires & billionaires from oil and other things if such devices were to hit the market overnight, especially hydrogen.
A lawn mower or car thru a heavy truck built today and yesterday can burn hydrogen with very little modification. In fact, modern technology such as on board engine controlling computers, catalytic converters, throttle bodies, carbs and such would not really be needed in a pure hydrogen powered vehicle.
Education of America and the world's general population to the REAL alternative fuel possibilities will be necessary before these alternative fuels/methods can ever have a possibility at becoming reality. $4.00+ per gallon gasoline & $5.00+per gallon diesel will certainly speed this education but millions of dollars will be lost to thugs on the Internet & elsewhere in this process. Pitiful, because the net is the one place with the greatest potential.
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Has anyone actually tried this hydrogen conversion kit?
I mean for real. Someone with a phone number and address?
I have a device in my 2006 Camry and I'm getting 55 mpg at 61 MPH.
How do I know this? I use a Scan Gauge
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Did you use one of the simple DIY books like water4gas or is this process something more difficult? I just purchased the book from water4gas as a curousity but is this real?
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Mike, did yo actually build the device you have in your Camry? If so, what kit did you use? II have a 1995 Honda Civic that gets pretty decent gas mileage, but we all know that it could always be better. I also have a 1995 Ford F150 that gets 10 gallons to the mile... it needs so much help.. (almost $100.00 bucks to fill it up...seriously..)
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Mike, I would sure like to know about how to make this device you made. I have a 93 ford F150 that gets horrible gas mileage. I love the truck though.
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what kit was used to work
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Dave,
I made the device myself. It goes in the air intake tube to the throttle body. My device is for real. So real in fact that I will put my money where my mouth is. I will put $5,000.00 cash on the dashboard of my car. If I can't show at least 55MPG going down the highway at 60MPH, the money is yours.
But 55MPG isn't enough. I want to hit at least 80 MPG at 60MPH. I think the hydrogen unit will allow me to do it?
Send me your direct email and phone number and maybe we can put something together. Mike
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mike, i saw your post about increased milage on your car. I built a h2 geneator and am thinking about how to put it on my truck. Any ideas?
jr
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Hy my name is Florin,are you willing to share the info of your device,I can share same of mine to....
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Mike in 1980 jc whitney sold a system which is no longer availabe It worked but no one really cared but me so I lost interest.Today I'm ready to get back into it since so many out there are interested . My system in 1980 increased about 15% mileage .I would like to get much more can you give me some realibale info to increase .thanks Tim
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Hi Mike my name is Bill. I am looking into this and seeking out real info. Just started and it seems everyone just wants money. I would like to stay on the free side of this and just help fight the OPEC. I can't find any free info, yet. Any help, Thanks
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JUST CURIOUS, I PURCHASD THE BOOK TOO HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO CONSRUCT YOUR UNIT? AND WHAT WAS YOUR FINAL COST DO YOU ESTIMATE. THANKS GARY LAGANA HOUSTON TX
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Mike, are you sharing or selling? Is your device different than what everybody is talking about here? Do you have a hybrid Camry? What mods did you have to do to the engine? Interested in a partner/investor?
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Mike , where did you get the plans for the device? Where can i see you car at?
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Simple magnetic device manufactered by Magnetizer will give you 20% better milage.I am using it from 1992...and beside better milage it cats polution down too. CO2 on my 17 years old Buick is 0.73, CO...0.01. Strangely, no envirometalist has interest to buing it.($150 =/-) Instalation is simple; zip ties.
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I want to give my '93 Cadillac better gas mileage, can you help me out
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Mike, Do you need financing?
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mike,
sending you my info ,I have been doing the research on he system as well .But alot of the non sense on the net.very tough to seprate the real info from the sales pitch.If you could send me the info as well and may be we as a whole could build up on each others experience.
Thank you.
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Mike, How much would sell a copy of your device to me for? I really need to lower the gas milage on my land rover discovery. I have tried water injection but have not acomplish much.
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How much would you charge to install a kit like this
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What do you say to critics that your process takes too much electricity to use in cars that have mid to optiman levels of electrical demands?
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You could install a higher amp alternator or add another alternator and battery, if needed, just to run the system. My Dodge truck has a 130 amp alternator and it doesn't use all that amperage except for winching etc. May start with that truck first since it has a large capacity alternator and sure could use some increased MPG. Already adding a second battery for things like winching so I could run such a system off that battery then turn the system off when using the winch etc.
On second thought, I will likely experiment with my cheap 1989 Ford Festiva and an old Honda 4-wheeler I have first, then go on to the Dodge truck if successful. Doing your experiments with low cost machines first, then on to more expensive toys is the best idea while you're unsure of the additions.
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Ok, I'm a Master Tech through ASE. I've been in the Automotive business for 34 years. I train at least 40 hours a year for updates. I bought the plans via PDF. This reminds me of a water injection system that is ages old. In WWII P-48 fighter planes used to add water to the combustion chamber during dog fights to increase compression ratio in the combustion chamber therefore increasing horsepower when needed. Another thing is this, on older engine that have alot of carbon build-up adding water to the combustion chamber very slowly will increase intake and exhaust flow and have a more complete burn. Notice I said burn and not explosion. After the carbon is gone I see no added benefit to adding water for fuel mileage. It will probably help power to some degree. What bothers me about the way this is advertised is, These people make it sound like this is true Hydrgen Conversion as a fuel. The way this is added I don't see it as a fuel. When water vapors are added in the combustion chamber the water simply takes up area inside the combustion chamber therefore raising compression. Also they suggest you advance timing. Raising compression and advancing timing is not a good combination. Earlier I referred to BURN in the combustion rather then explosion. Burn is good, Explosion (detonation or spark knock) is bad. Raising compression and advancing timing causes explosion.
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For hydrogen as fuel without gas/diesel, the people I have heard on the subject say to lower timing towards more top dead center. They also state that carb or throttle body removal (for increased air intake if no other reason) with the injection of pure hydrogen at drastically lowered pressures (pressures a whole lot lower than compressed hydrogen in a cylinder has) near the intake valve through a stainless steel tube about the size of a basket ball nozzle on an air compressor hose or the size of a horse syringe (for giving horses a shot).
Never heard to advance timing even when using the water to hydrogen boost technique-don't even sound feasible because hydrogen burns faster than pure gasoline! That's why a gasoline engine has advanced timing in the first place-to give the gasoline time to burn as completely as possible at and during the initial beginning of the down stroke of the piston.
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Hi Ken, i've been an auto mechanic and aircraft mechanic for many years and have been approaching this thing rather skeptically myself. I don't think this is water vapor alone. I did a crude but adequate experiment in a 5 gallon bucket and the bubbles ignited, albeit weakly because of their close proximity to open atmosphere. Also, I believe most of the water vapor in these little systems is captured in the cell and also by the bubbler (by adhesion to water already in the bubbler) leaving hydrogen and oxygen for the most part going to the engine. I suppose a test for water vapor at the final output would be a good idea to see how much actually gets there. either way, i don't think there would be enough water to be the primary source of increased efficiency, or to cause the need for stainless valves as i've heard some mention.
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What does adding water have to do with this discussion. Read the post Mr ASE 34 years. Big deal.
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I ran a number of the Holley water injection systems back in the 80's. All they did and claim to was inject a water alcohol mixture wich would slow combustion to eliminate pinging which is just what they did with a mild 10.5/1 engine. Nothing more.
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My biggest concern with these plans is storing hydrogen in pressure tanks. Yes, cars can run on hydrogen, we know that. We also know that hydrogen like other fuels will burn or even explode. I'm not to sure how good I feel with the idea of having two or three pressurized hydrogen tanks attached right behind where my 10 month old daughter will be riding in the car. If someone were to crash into your car in hit a pressurized tank of hydrogen, wouldn't that almost be the same as setting a bomb off in your car? This could be another reason why the US Gov may be closing sites like these. It could definitely save you money on gas if installed correctly, but there are other factors to consider other than just saving money on gas. Safety being one of them.
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... you realize that H^2 is safer than gas right? the pressurized gas will rise and dissipate within a few seconds after a STANDARD tank is ruptured. however, these tanks release h2 once heated to a point (don't ask me how it works... I just read the site). gas on the other hand will spread over the ground and will burn underneath the car if the tank is ruptured and their is a spark.
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i don't think it no diffrant than you having a full tank of gas or a car that runs off propane.
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Uhmmm...you are currently driving your car with your infant child in a car that has an explosive liquid in a tank....that you pay through the nose
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ken you made a very good point however these are not water vapor injection kits. these turn the water into hydrogen gas. hydrogen, unlike the water it comes from, compresses quite easily and does not increase the compression ratio the reason for the advanced timing is that hydrogen burns much much more quickly the gasoline. this prevents the expanding gases from slipping by the valves, and causing the breakdown that luke warren experienced in his Audi a4.
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Advancing the timing even more with faster burning hydrogen (faster burning than straight gasoline) is obviously the wrong thing to do. Advancing the timing would cause a backwards push on the piston before it even reached the top-could even bend a rod and/or cause engine stall not to mention what it would be doing to the rod bearings.
Luke Warren may not have adjusted his timing towards top dead center or after top dead center and the internal pressure inside the cylinder went through the roof because the explosion occurred before the piston reached the top (the engine rotating one way and the explosion pushing the piston the other way all of a sudden). Also the device to make pure hydrogen or HHO (as some call the water to hydrogen device), cannot dump straight water into the engine. Any water entering the engine must be in the form of a very fine mist (and very little at that). Dumping straight water inside a rotating engine's intake will warp valves, knock the top out of pistons, bust cylinder walls or bend rods! Expanding gases slipping by the valves? Sounds like defective valves if this was the case.
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Because hydrogen can ignite before the compression stage (pre-ignition) you need custom injectors to prevent pre-ignition from traveling back up the intake manifold. The sales of kits imply you can switch back and forth between gas and hydrogen. This would be problematic to inexperienced Green Consumers and so the conversions need a bit more tweaking, and underwriters lab testing.
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I have only begun to research the feasibility of these HHO systems. However, I have been a mechanic for more than 40 years. I must disagree with those who believe that water injection is a bad thing. I built and installed a water injection system on a 1968 Plymouth Valiant. It utilized roughly 10% as much water as fuel. Gas mileage increased minimally, because I didn't make the effort to make the air/fuel ratio leaner. A small amount of water entering the combustion chamber has the same effect as using a more dense air charge. It converts to steam in the combustion process, increases the thrust of the power stroke, and cleans deposits. If these HHO generators will truly produce a combustible gas, then as one of the "Snake-oil-salesmen" stated, you will need to modify the computer system to allow a leaner exhaust or there will be very little, if any, gain in fuel economy. The vehicle's computer gets a signal from the O2 sensor, in the exhaust stream, which tells it how to control the A/F ratio. It will not sense anything from the addition of HHO to the mixture because it reacts only to carbon and oxygen, generating a small electrical output proportionate to the ratio of CO & O2 that it is exposed to. (at operating temp.) Therefore, if you do not trick your on-board computer into thinking that the A/F ratio is correct and allow you to deliver a lean mixture, it will tell the fuel injection system to send the same amount of fuel that it normally would. This would cause a ratio to be over-rich due to the introduction of a second combustible gas into the A/F stream.
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You are barking up the same tree of concern that I am. The newer cars have short and long term fuel trims that will take some type of programming to compensate for the introduction of fuel into the combustion process and could cause problems.
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John,
What about a dummy O2 sensor. I installed one of these on a truck that I put dual exhaust on for more power. Couldnt you trick the computer with that.
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I know that at least some of the full conversion kits out there are bypassing the car's computer when their system is in use... at least in using their own electronics for fuel control. The one i'm thinking of designs for specific models which could indicate that they are actually engineering model-specific bypass electronics. I don't know if that includes tweeking injector timing or not, but i imagine it would need to as you're basically saying yourself.
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why do people insist on comparing hydrogen gas to water injection...? Hydrogen gas is GAS and water injection has to do with WATER. Lets say that some small amount of water/ humidity vapor actually does reach the engine with the hydrogen gas... what do you think the effect would be? if we take what we know about water injection and apply it we should expect a slight reduction in cylinder temperature and slight increase in pressure. generally speaking those are benefits.. water injection works because the pressure increase is offset by temperature reduction.
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I for one advocate the use of HHO or even pressurized pure hydrogen. But first one should know how to correctly do the conversions to prevent damage to costly equipment. If, for instance, one allows straight water to siphon from a HHO device into the cylinder(s), engine damage may result. I am not talking about the water you will ultimately inject with a properly set up HHO system since a little water vapor is good. Just like a rainy day enhances engine performance, so will injection somehow of water VAPOR. Straight non-vaporized water SIPHONED into a cylinder can destroy the engine for several reasons and everyone should know that when installing and operating one of these devices-think, do it right or don't do it at all if you are mechanically challenged (until you learn the ins and outs of an internal combustion engine, that is). PURE PRESSURIZED HYDROGEN burns at a different rate than gasoline. Engine ignition timing is very critical to prevent damage to the engine! Learn about engine controlling computers and their sensors (for instance, like the O2 sensor) and what to do there for these conversions to be successful. By all means do everything you can to relieve this gasoline/diesel price thing but be smart and don't destroy a $5-10,000 engine doing it. $10,000 will buy 2500 gallons of $4.00 per gallon gasoline which will take you 50,000 miles if your vehicle currently gets 20 miles per gal. Think about it! Our Government will be no help, waiting on car manufacturers for fuel efficient/alternative fueled cars (not everyone could afford these anyway) and big oil for alternative fuels will take years or never happen in most of our lifetimes. The way I see it, the shoe is now on our own foot to get fully involved (including govt. changes-we need new faces throughout Washington and the nation), create new ways to provide energy and refrain from following the same old status quo in regards to big oil, automotive manufacturers and others. Gona junk your car without a trade in and buy a new one every 3-4 years like you technically have to do with you PC? Nope, that'll never happen because common wages prohibit it, to think otherwise is ludicrous.
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I think this will happen regardless. Some vapor will be created because in a closed environment with an explosion where Hydrogen and Oxygen is present..water will be created (2*H2 + 02= 2*H2O). Which as you stated is good for reducing temperature and increased pressure.
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... OK so there is legit pro's and con's to all sides of the fence. It might blow up your engine, it will give 80MPG.... etc..etc..etc. Here's the truth. There is NOTHING stopping the price at the pump from reaching $10/gallon. Its an industry with NO competitors... which is a problem. Who cares about safety when you can't afford to eat? My Pyshc 101 class told me Safety is last human need. Food and shelter being the first.
I don't care what it is....even if it cost $5/gallon... there needs to be a competitor to the oil industry. Its a world-wide monopoly and nothing is being done about it.
I don't want to see our oil companies put of business.... thats' not right either, but they need competition. If faced with legit pressure they will push car companies to increase fuel efficiency, lower their own production cost, and it will end up being a win/win for everyone. We don't need to "replace" oil. We just to divide up the market share across several legit competitors that make up maybe 40% of the fuel market. Oil can keep 60% instead of the 99.9% they enjoy now.
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I enjoyed this, though I'm not altogether sure that the articles I read indicated injecting the amount of water these people were talking of. But this is the only back and forth discussion that I have found and the first that tried to approach the question of a possible solution. It is amazing though that the fellow who had actually installed the device made me think that he might be someone salting the mine. I''ll be back; I'm very interested in this.
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RICH.
I have been researching this info for about 6 months now and decided to try to build 1 or 2. did the simple one with the 2 electrodes and baking soda with distilled water in 2-2L bottles,1 hyd. other Oyx in a 5 gal. bucket. this produced so much hydrogen that the hyd. bottle started lifting out of the bucket to where i had to weight it down with bricks. and it did burn, super fast.
I am now building the hotsabi booster that uses S.S. parts and lye mixed in distilled water. testing it when I hooked up my 18volt drill battery to it it started bubbling violently which I figure is great. It means its producing hydrogen and oxy at a good rate, big bubbles were oxy. and smaller bubbles were hyd/. I'm now building the unit per plans to see what happens. The hardest part is making the containers absolutely air tight. Will keep you informed on my progress. going to try to seperate the oxy and hyd. so that I use only the hyd. as fuel. Do you guys think it will work or have any ideas that might work better?
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hello, i have built one of these my self and curently testing on my car, havent modified the car its self just added this and already ive noticed a difference, you said you where trying to make the bottles air tight, there are 2 ways i have found to work best. 1. you can use gasket sealer/maker to seal the bottles, 2. you can use 5 min epoxy, only problem with epoxy though is it gets hard and can crack after a while. any other glues ive used dont seem to hold well (super glue, krazy glue, hot glue..ect) well i hope this helps you.
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Rich, i was interested in your post. I'm also in the proccess of building a generator and using stainless for the "guts". Let me know what's happening with your project. Some of these ignorant yahoo's in these post don't have a clue about whats going on in the real world of experimenting with generators. They only can talk about what they THINK or what they have HEARD. Why can"t we get some people with hands on experience to come in and talk. Also I'm wondering why you want to seperate the H from the O because we can use the O as oxidixer for the fuel H in the same way were using air as an oxidizer for the atomized gasoline in the standard internal combustion engine? Thanks, and any response will be answered. Responding to comment #64
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Hi TrueBlue,
Would you mind to send me what ever you have
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Well, I guess I should admit that you lost me with your technical mechanical/speak. I do want to thank those posters who insist on correct spelling and placement of apostrophes. What I want to know is, how to achieve this for the common man without Big Oil and the government going fascist on us? Will this become a feature of an underground economy and the cops stopping us for suspected hydrogen usage? And, most importantly, will it work in a meaningful way, enough to get our kids out of Iraq and prevent a stupid economic incursion into Iran?
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What is the purpose of NEUTRAL PLATES? Does anyone have information on that. Are they used as some sort of buffer? i have been seening pro's and con's on using them regarding hydrogen output. What is different with or without using them. thanks!
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Hooking the electrical wires to the same plate would probably yield nothing because the current would essentially bypass the water and there would occur the same as a short in the wires. The plates provide a buffer of sorts between the positive and negative connections but also give up hydrogen and oxygen to a certain extent because the water is fully carrying the current between the outside plates. For electrical reasons, I would be skeptical about any system that says that tap water can be used-minerals in tap water could produce a short of sorts or at least require high amperage input (distilled water does not carry electrical current well but impurities & minerals in regular water does)!
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As a matter of fact, if the neg. plate and the positive plate are in really close proximity to each other, it seems that amperage requirements would increase. Multiple plates electrically separated (except thru the water) would possibly yield approx half them emitting hydrogen and the other half oxygen because of their proximity to the respective negative and positive connections (outside plates), and at a lower amperage draw depending on the water or solution used.
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I'd like to hear an informed opinion from someone who doesn't think the government is out to get them.
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I am not worried about the Government either. In fact, i don't believe its a government issue. Its a market issue. We need to stop being the cry babies and be the people who invent our way out of this problem.
Previous poster is right, don't do an experiment on your only car or an Audi!!! Duh! Would you test a new drug on your completely healthy child? However, we are surrounded by morons, so Government must protect these people.
A lot of people are looking at way they personally can benefit. Well, I think we should look at the big picture. How about contributing to the science to reduce consumption in public trans, or school buses, trains, etc. What about lawncare? Imagine a summer using only 2 gallons of gas???? Small things can go a long way. By trying to take down the personal auto..... we're throwing rocks at army tanks. Not going to do much damage.
It would be much easier to get someone to use a hydrogen powered mower. Plus, I believe it could be more profitable for anyone willing to jump in.
Also someone who's willing to educate and certify techs all over the country on alternative fuel vehicle converting. Has to be big bucks in that? Or an auto shop that does the converting? Selling alternative fuels??? You won't need a huge network like gas stations to help local people use hydrogen or any other alternative fuel to power their other equipment.
So to summarize.... let's put the focus on things other than cars.... and perfect the technology than move to the monster once we have full knowledge and power.
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I don't know if this makes sense, but here it goes (I'm not a mechanic). There was a discussion about how the O2 sensor works. Could there or should there be a seperate HHO sensor in the exhaust to sense this as well so you don't damage your engine. Would this mean that the computer would have to know about HHO? Please, let's keep this going!!!
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I have not seen any mention of the key problem with high preassure hydrogen.. i.e. when the preassure drops dramaticcally the take up of heat in the air around it causes instantaneuous combustion. During training in the UK we are taught that a simple test with newsprint around the neck of a leaking h2 cylinder will catch fire as the leaking gas that is burning invisibly sets the paper off. This phenomina was common in county halls when balloons where filled with hydrogen instead of hellium in an older time. People would crack open the cylinders to check they had gas in them and hear the whoosh of gas released but not see the flame, but evidence was always visible on the ceilings after the event. This will not put me off using h2 but will stop me using stored high preassure gas, I will be looking to use gas produced on demand or as near to as possible.
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i bought plans water for gas and my neighbor bought the hydrogen boost system I already experimented with some 1 liter bottles and was able to lite the gas.however if fire is allowed to travel back to the cell it will explode.I took ome 403 stainless steal pipe .you want to use nonmagnetic pipe so it will not corrode away with the sodium hydroxode works to make the hydrogen.you build ur cell and add sodium hydroxide till you get the amps up on ur distilled water.as far as ur gas you put a 50 ohm variable resistor on ur mass aor flow sensor and dial back the thing till ur car loses power hence cutting back on injectd fuel.the hydrogen gas takes up the slack on the gas u cut back on.now the problem im having is i cant see if its working i dont have a scan gauge.with that in mind i need to get one.anyway what u want to do is get one liter of gas per minute for a 4 cylinder car.the oxygen sensor unplug it.what u want to do is rig a microswith on ur throttle so ur only making gas after u accerlerate.you dont want to be making gas if ur car isnt running.im willing to share any information i can on this subject.the way i see it opec is horny and im gonna fjjk them.lol
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r u in the uk i would like to put some questions to u
thanxs craig
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[...] and are asking how can I "drive on water", you might want to check out this link, from the comments here it's looking like we might be able to drive on water (partly at least). That's till the gas goes [...]
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WOODY, PLEASE GIVE US UPDATES ON YOUR PROJECT, YOUR IDEAS SOUND THE MOST LOGICAL OUT OF EVERYTHING I HAVE READ. ALSO THERE IS SO MUCH TALK ABOUT CONVERTING AN ENGINE WITH EFI. IT SEEMS THAT A DIESEL ENGINE OR A CARBURATED ENGINE WOULD BE THE WISE CHOICE TO PERFECT THIS IDEA. HAVE YOU TRIED APPLYING HYDROGEN TO THESE OTHER APPLICATIONS? THANKS
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A long time shop owner friend of mine & I have been playing with this & found that on post 96 autos you may have a computor problem. It seems easier to install on a TBI car(my 91 Saturn single cam)I feel that in the next five years you will see real advances in a free market regardless of big oil and self serving goverment.
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[...] DIY - Convert Your car to use Hydrogen Today [...]
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As previously mentioned, this is not new technology, it has been tried and rejected in the past. It keeps getting trotted out every time there is a gasoline/oil shortage or oil prices go through the roof. Standard internal combustion engines will burn hydrogen or "Brown's Gas".
The problem is that these small scale units will not produce sufficient hydrogen in the quantity needed to run a car. If you don't believe me do the math to calculate the volume of gas produced per second, then do the math ( or run your car on purchased hydrogen to get empirical data) and compare. There are numerous efforts going on that convert standarad internal combustion engines to run on hydrogen or on the so called "Brown's Gas". There are a lot of successful conversions - these all work on highly compressed pre-made stored gases. This is where the "onboard water" systems all fail. The quantity of gas required cannot be practically generated and compressed by the advertised onboard systems. Fuel Cell technology on the other hand works and works well. It is in use in various places to generate electricity where price does not matter (ie: gov't and military sites). But once more, the Fuel Cell technology is nearly impossible for the home-tinkerer to build and is not yet cost effective.
But hey - it's your money, blow it where you want to.
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thank goodness somebody actually knows what they're talking about and not spreading the propaganda of on board electrolysis. I've read through this thread and have been sorely disappointed in the copious lack of good knowledge offered. some seem to be very interested and even attempting hydrogen conversions. I've been doing extensive research for over a year now, read many books and talked to lots of people on this subject. i strongly urge everybody to properly educate themselves in this subject. We need as many people as possible to know the truths of alternative fuels and cannot afford false information to divide and dilute us. so please, anybody who reads this thread visit the knowledge publications website and order the multi fuel dvd and a few books. after reviewing at least the dvd with a few friends i beleive that you would have made an incredible impact.
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hey Doc, The little Onboard water systems are not intended to "be" compressed systems nor to "run the car".. so not sure how they're failing in the sense you say. The average home-tinkerer is only trying provide a low pressure supplement to increase fuel economy....and are getting results from what i have seen. If a 20% increase in fuel economy for $150 dollars is coming up as a waste of money on your calculator...then maybe you're hitting a wrong button.
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A friend of mine has three cars with this on them that he made in his garage.He got 53 miles to a gallon of gas on his ford explorer.He also blew his garage up twice trying to get it right.But it does work and he has got it right.He has now started making thes for neighbors for free.
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Larry did you buy your parts from the man in Houston, tx?
or did you build it from the run your car on water manual?
thanks
gary
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on board electrolysis cannot make a substantial difference to the performance of your vehicle. your alternator cannot even produce 5% of the BTU value of your air-fuel mixture. One would need approximatly 5 alternators running full capacity to produce enough hydrogen to make the combustion more efficient. but once you have all these alternators sucking horsepower you lose all the benefits of the hydrogen produced. the inexpensive electrolysis cell you make is at best 10% efficient, so its impossible to produce a significant quantity of hydrogen in this fashion. do not beleive this scam. There are methods of effectively supplementing your air fuel mixture with hydrogen, but onboard electrolysis is once again not the answer, even if you buy an expensive PEM cell operating at 75% efficiency it still wont work. i hope we can transcend this misconception and start pursuing real solutions.
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Ok i am some what of a good midnight engineer, i purchased the plans from run your car on water,I have read through them. I know how the separation of hydrogen works. I intend to build and install the equipment to SUPLIMENT MY GAS ECONOMY! key words here! your wrong it doesn't require a lot of power. Buy the directions read page 12 try to understand it better before you put your self out there!
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Hello, Larry, I think it's great of your friend to help his neighbors out! I would like to get some help building a hydrogen generator for my car; also, how do you deal with keeping the hydrogen/oxygen separated-as I've always heard that they explode when accidentally combined??? Any help I can receive will be most welcome. Also, I'd like to talk to your neighbor about his kits. Thanks, Bobby
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Ok, so I use energy from the engine- via the alternator- to break water down into hydrogen and oxygen. Then I inject the hydrogen into the engine to burn it. All those who think there is a net gain of energy in this process may sign up for remedial physics. When you burn hydrogen in the presence of air you get water. In any significant amounts your engine will be very unhappy.
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All you nay-saying physisists chiming in here have your noses too stuck in the books. We are not creating energy from nothing (breaking the first law of thermodynamics). The battery is producing a fuel from a substance (water). The battery is being recharged (partially) by that fuel. Why not - after assisting in starting the car it (the battery) isn't doing much else except being recharged by the alternator.
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i just did this on board electrolysis to my car, i have not modified the car at all except to drill a hole in the intake and run a tube into it. i havent gotten to do the exact milage yet (to come soon) but normally it takes me about 1/4th tank to get to work and back home. after doing this it now takes me about 1/8th tank. meaning double fuel mileage so far. i tried the on demand way wich was to hook it up to turn on with the car, that did do something but not much. what im doing now is i have it hooked to a seperate switch and turn it on about 3 min b4 i start the car, gives the hho system time to start and get presureized/primed b4 the car starts, also gets some hho into the intake and i think tricks the sensor there some how? (yes you have to have some presure in there for it to work or it just simply wont go any where. but that dosnt mean you need a jet sprayer and pump either) ill post my mileage as soon as i get it to you. happy experementing :-)
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All you need to do is figure the output of your alternator and compare it to the cfms your engine moves at average rmps and figure the 14.7:1 ratio in and compare the BTUs. The output of the on board electrolysis is negligible. Once again I'm a huge advocate of alternative fuels, but we need to get real. If anybody else has seen the DVD from knowledge publications or read any books on hydrogen production, I need some backup. And for those of you who haven't educated yourself in depth, do so now.
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I met a guy that is working on a hydrogen from water conversion system. He wants to market it specifically for diesel motors for use in vehicles like UPS trucks. Obviously one unit of water is going to have a specific measure of hydrogen. What varies is the speed at which you can create the hydrogen. You can set up an electrolysis test and measure the rate at which your system is producing hydrogen. That's what this guy did. He also used electrolytes to improve his system. Instead of a tank he uses a bag to fill with water so you can easily put it in any nook in the engine compartment. He uses an upgraded, higher amp alternator. Also, he has added a device that shuts the electricity off to the system for safety. There's a valve that prevents back pressure as well. The air goes into the air intake. To overcome the problem with timing, he has a company making chips (like diesel performance chips) those cost about $300. So his system is expensive. Each chip has to be custom made for each car's fuel and ignition system. He says it absolutely works and is completely safe. It does not use a tank to store hydrogen rather makes hydrogen on the fly.
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This is thermodynamically impossible. How could you produce enough hydrogen on demand with power from the engine to produce enough extra torque to get you down the road. it boils down to the fact that even a high amperage alternator yields a negligible amount of hydrogen and energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Even for a hydrogen boosted system, the amount produced is not nearly enough to make a difference. Oh and a "bag" electrolysis system would be awful. High pressure, heat, and a small gap between electrodes is what yields efficient electrolysis of water, and a sack does none of these well.
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The bag fills the tank where the eloctrodes are. -- I was talking to a friend yesterday and we talked about Newtons law which I believe says that separating the hydrogen and oxygen requires x amount of energy and the combusion of the hydrogen generates y amount of energy so either x=y or x>y because of the enificiency of combustion engines. This made sense. To me, what this means is that the alternator is going to drag on the engine taking horsepower at either the same rate as the hydrogen is adding to horsepower or less, therefore it's possible it could produce less horsepower. I don't know if there is a direct comparison to the friction from the alternator to produce energy thus separating the hydrogen from the added combustion in the cylinders. What him and I concluded is that the added efficiency and power doesn't come from the hydrogen and oxygen itself, rather combined with the combustible fuel of gasoline or diesel, the added gasses improve the efficiency of the fuel. Someone needs to do a chemical breakdown and prove that the molucules could actually improve the efficiency of the fuel. That's where the answer lies, I think.
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there are very few things in this world that yield 100% efficiency, and a naturally aspirated, low compression homogeneous charge motor is definitely not one. The electrolysis of water itself is not efficient when "off the shelf" materials are used. so no, the engine produced hydrogen will not produce more hydrogen for the engine. after the regime of efficiencies necessary for EFFECTIVE on board electrolysis the efficiency gain on the motor does not compensate.
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eli your letting your intelligence get to your head the local news station installed this device into one of there own vehiles and the car had a 45% increase in fuel savings this is a news station that investigates scams the proof is in the pudding who cares about your laws of physics the hydrogen helps the gas ignite more efficently helping the gas provide better horse power its not that the hydrogen is moving the cylinders its like adding a giant spark plug!! Got it!! Its widely known that the gasoline engine is very inefficent hydrogen burns much quicker helping the "gasoline" burn completely. Leave the math at home if your so skeptical than why do you keep coming to the site?
Im going to convert my 25 horse honda that runs my pressure washer which uses 20 dollars of gasoline every three hours to run on a hybrid of natural gas and hydrogen i will let you know how that goes its going to take awhile for me to afford the conversion im converting the things that cost me the most fuel for my biz which is the pressure washers at 50 dollars a day. Just the conversion to natural gas will save me enough money to make a difference have fun debating yourself eli.
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its entirely true that hydrogen acts as an ignition catalyst, i know this, and i also know that hydrogen can offer up 30% increases in thermal efficiency. This is reported from the national hydrogen association, who has been successfully converting ICEs to partial and pure hydrogen since the 60s. It has been found by them that to achieve this benefit, you NEED to match 5-7% of the BTU content with hydrogen. Is it not unreasonably to think that less than that would be negligible. Who cares about the laws of physics??... people who know what they are talking about. With false information being propagated (like on this forum) somebody who understands these principles needs more than "it works" to believe it. If i saw the dyno numbers at the dyno, in real time, or drove one of these cars, then maybe. In fact, im a professional machinist, i'll fabricate one using better than off the shelf materials, and i'll just have to go ahead and waste my time disproving it physically, because people cant seem to understand why it so obviously CANT WORK!! and how does your CNG pressure washer relate to your argument at all? i would enjoy debating something important, but all i seem to get on this forum are un informed arguments.
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Ahem! The physicists and engineers (like me) on this site are saying it is possible.
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Mac i agree...hes is stuck in his skeptical sense in proving why it does not work. I could prove the Earth is flat if used whatever math I wanted...but that does not disprove the math that does prove the earth round.
My point is, ELI, dont prove how and why this cant work....prove why it does work. Its worked on several testimonials( which are admittedly negligible since it is the internet afterall) but its been shown on newscasts and I personally got a 63% increase in mpg.
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WOW!!..It sure doesnt sound like your pessimism and negativity is going to affect how you build your hydrogen generator
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I just talked to another guy today that is making his own diesel from vegetable oil. After adding things like, kerosene, gasoline, and maybe methanol among other chemicals, the fuel is prepared and filtered. The process costs him 82 cents a gallon. He orders some other chemicals from Germany to add. He has an 05 dodge pickup with a high output turbo Cummins that gets 22mpg. At 82 cents a gallon I don't care so much about the mpg.
Does anybody know about making your own fuel like this?
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Call Al Gore he will tell you how to hook up our solar panels.
The gas companies want the money from the consumer, which means that they have absolutely no interest in alternative fuel source. To add to that the fuel cell acquires greater milage which means less time at the pump. This must tick off Chaney and his because it hurts his BP stock value. I cant wait till it hits $7 a gallon in 09 :(.
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"This is thermodynamically impossible" NOT TRUE! The first law of thermodynamics states that, “in any process, the total energy of the UNIVERSE remains the same.” When looking at this process we are discussing you must consider the potential energy that is already stored in a water molecule. The energy needed to break the bond between the hydrogen and oxygen is in fact less than the potential energy of burning the hydrogen-oxygen gas. Ask yourself this question: If coal accounts for 50% of our countries energy, how much energy are we using to gather (generate) and burn coal? Definitly not more than 50% of our countries energy, otherwise we would be using more energy to use coal than it produces. It's the potential energy stored in coal that makes it a viable fuel. The same holds true for water or any other viable fuel. I do agree however that these onboard systems are not a viable means of generating 100% of the fuel needed to run a vehicle, but to supplement, yes. Who knows though, maybe if you tie a bunch of them together? Personally I'm going to make one and start by trying to supply enough gas to run a BBQ.
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i agree, trying to make one of these to run a car 100% would be very much so a pain. to supplement the fuel is good though. i have read where some say it will bog down your engine by drawing to much from your alternator, but heres the deal, it already puts out a surplus amount of power (if it didnt it wouldnt be able to charge the battery), if you stay with in that range it wont cause your engine to speed up to speed up the alt. that said iv been running one of these now for over a week now and finally got some numbers for you guys, my car (a 1990 corsica) was getting around 24-25 MPG, now is getting 29-30 MPG. thats b4 i did some tinkering to the hho generator. im hopeing the mods i made will help increase the MPG but we shall see. one way or another if you look at it like this, i added about 5 MPG more to it, not much but thats like adding an extra gallon "free" per every 5 gallons i fill under prior mpg and with todays gas prices, better than nothing! :-)
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Hydrogen is not a fuel source but an energy carrier, and with the cascade of thermal efficiencies associated with electrolysis and back to internal combustion, the alternator just doesn't produce enough net energy, even if captured at decent thermal efficiencies (cannot be done with off the shelf products). Oh and your already wrong because it takes 1.1 gallons of gasoline to deliver you 1 at the pump, so we are already using more than yielded from the beginning. Nobody seems to understand how little of the energy in the gasoline that is consumed to make the hydrogen that gets fed back into your car is left. Think about it, a bit of gasoline used at 22% (at best) fed to your 10% efficient electrolyzer is a huge reduction in potential energy. Ultimately your argument is not moving because you compared a energy source with an energy carrier. Make a sound argument before you get too hot headed and blather your ignorance.
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Eli, um, yeah. ive seen you flameing over other peoples evidence a bit here, claiming mis-information is all this is, in fact it is not. if this really didnt work then explain to me WHY IT DOSE first. my car got 24-25 MPG befor the install, now get 31 mpg after. i think the numbers speak for them selfs PERIOD. you dont need to be a mechanic,scientist, or any thing to see that it works and thats all there is to it. so stop arguing FACT and start telling us why it might not be a good idea to run this, instead of telling us that we are breaking even or getting less mileage when its obvious that we are getting better mileage. now i will add this, i have seen some really crapy designs for a HHO gen, and im going to post my design as soon as i get a few kinks out of the system, but even with the problems im getting better MPG.
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[...] any one out there that truely knows anything about these hydrogen conversion kits. Like this one DIY - Convert Your car to use Hydrogen Today I've also seen them on ebay. With gas at over $4 per gallon this stuff is looking really good. But [...]
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i just came across this site June 12 2008 as i only recently became interested in trying to complete a HHO conversion project. How old are these posts and has anyone put one of these things on their vehicles? Good/Bad/Indifference to the results for mileage increases?
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Keith.
I recently built one of these and put it in my truck and I was getting about 12mpg now I'm getting about 16mpg. It was a little difficult to build and install but it is working and was worth the effort. Bit the next one for for my car I will buy and save all the time I had in building this one, it will be cheaper in the long run.
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I appreciate all you "experts" but don't forget, hydrogen implodes on ignition not explodes like gasoline. This is the reason you need to advance your timing significantly because it is sucking the piston up instead of exploding it down.
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hydrogen doesnt implode, thats why you have to retard your timing till nearly top dead center. In fact hydrogen EXPANDS 8-10 times faster than gasoline, thats why it offers thermodynamic advantage when mixed in SUFFICIENT quantities with gasoline. While it doesnt take "a lot" of power, but if you look at the regime of thermal inefficiencies from the liquid fuel to your 20% efficient motor to a slight drop in efficiency in friction and inherent inefficiencies to the alternator, to your 10% efficient off the shelf electrolyzer back to your 20% efficient motor to another 6% drop in efficiency the ground. After all that, there is not much energy left.
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Hydrogen "implodes"??? Sucks the piston up?? Joe! are you 7 years old? Thanks for the laugh! Expert!
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fill your house up with hydrogen and light a match let me know where your house end up on top of you or down the street.
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i know a guy that is using a device you are trying to figure out he goes to my friends church and is getting 30 mpg on a turbo diesel i believe give me time to figure out how its done
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what kind of turbo diesel, because in Europe there are some turbo diesels getting in excess of 70 mpg. While a Dodge cummins truck gets around 20. And in case people didn't read my above post, i am going to attempt to build an on board electrolyzer using better than off the shelf materials and report on my findings.
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Eli, Some of this HHO business may very well be scams but the main point is that it is stimulating folks to come up with alternate fuels or added fuel efficiencies. What if naysayers told Bill Gates or Thomas Edison their ideas would not work and they stopped before they were finished?
I buy some books from Knowledge Publications but I also realize that they are in this only to sell books etc and may not have the exclusive rights to a HHO book or another hydrogen on demand book/device! After all, they push their little heater and books on generator gas for vehicles and engines which works by producing hydrogen gas from wood and other bio mass. Why not hydrogen from water and/or other chemicals/matter?
Some of the people you're quoting produce huge quantities of pure hydrogen, not just one car's requirements.
Electrolysis of water and other chemicals to produce hydrogen from only a few amps of electricity is true. Chemically releasing hydrogen is also true. Seems to me that the next thing will be to produce it on demand and in large enough quantities to adequately run a vehicle, then enable some form of compression so it can be accurately injected into an engine (will not take very much compression-just a few psi).
Out of the thousands of people experimenting, someone somewhere will come up on a very good answer to on demand pure hydrogen production either by accident or by experiment. Knowledge Publications may not have rights to any books or other things resulting from these accidents or experiments either!
HHO experimentation could be the catalyst by which this all comes about. As present day engines can operate exclusively off pure hydrogen with only a few relatively modest low cost alterations, such a device would most certainly radically change the world and be too big for the Govt to hide or the oil companies to buy out if word to the public, Govt, big oil, and other entities about such a device was let out at the proper time/manner.
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Hydrogen on demand is pointless. A car that operates exclusively off pure hydrogen supplied by a hydrogen on demand system is simply a terribly inefficient electric car. To produce that much hydrogen, you need a lot of batteries. And to expect the car's alternator to recharge those batteries is to admit you believe in perpetual motion devices - it needs to be plugged in at night. Why not just run an electric motor with that power instead of create hydrogen to burn? The electric motor is going to be much more efficient than your inefficient electrolysis unit and your even more inefficient internal combustion engine.
Hydrogen on demand is doable, but it isn't the way of the future.
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Who said pure hydrogen can only be had by the use of electricity? It could be by chemical release or it could be by both. I don't know the answer right now and you don't either. A new breakthrough chemical release of hydrogen has already reportedly been found quite by accident at Purdue University using an aluminum-gallium alloy and water mixture (no electricity involved). This could lead to who knows what in the future! Most breakthroughs come from new thinking or by accident like this, not old hat stuff. I predict that rechargeable electric cars never really take hold in the USA. I don't want one and most people I talk to don't want one. Electric cars that produce their own energy from something like hydrogen may take hold in the future, but using hydrogen in an internal combustion engine really makes more sense. Why build/buy an expensive electric hydrogen powered car when the present internal combustion engines we all already have can burn pure hydrogen now. Hydrogen on demand might be the way of the future if the right people turn a deaf to all the naysayers and look for ways! TV, Government, car manufacturers and many others are very busy muddying the water but there may very well be someone out there who comes up with a hydrogen breakthrough that makes Purdue University's pale by comparison.
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i agree, its experementers on their own that will more than likely have to carry the torch for this. wether its the gov, big oil, car companys, or all of them. i dont see them doing a whole lot about this right now. and yes we cant for get to look to the chemical side to, its simple to do, i only know one way my self but im sure there are others. and who knows maybe one day this will some how turn into something near free energy, maybe not quite but close. right now i think this is just a band-aid on a broken arm style solution, how ever i also belive its a major step in the right direction and its up to us, the home experementers to do the work. :-)
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Exactly TrueBlueTheCat, and these HHO projects will tend to stimulate constructive thought. They could possibly save people a lot of money along the way!
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Knowledge Publications definately have books on all sorts of alternative fuel. I personally ordered one specifically on hydrocarbon gasification and electrolysis.
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Can we run our car with water and gas?
Can anybody tell me is the HHO Gas is real working or is another scam?
Can we run our car with water and gas?
Can anybody tell me is the HHO Gas is real working or is another scam?
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Careful! 99.9% of what you read online about hydrogen fueled cars is by frauds.
Also, I don't know why some of you think that converting all cars to run on hydrogen would ruin the economy. High gas prices are ruining the economy. What you don't spend on gas is directly injected into the economy in the form of more flat screen tv sales, etc. The real strain on the economy is our dependence on foreign oil. Why should we be giving away billions to OPEC for petroleum?
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here is a question relating to how the process works once the hydrogen and oxygen are ignited. after ignition it forms water vapor which depending on the cylinder pressure and temperature can flash into steam to provide more expansion in the cylinder. if the water actually changes from a vapor to a gas then some of the power gain is due to this effect. other potential gains are from the heat created when the hydrogen and oxygen are recombined causing more complete burn of the gasoline, and the expansion effect of hydrogen and oxygen recombining to form a water molecule. does anyone know if it is possible that the gain in efficiency is due in part to the steam or is there too much pressure in the cylinder preventing this. seems to me that at some point on the power stroke as the pressure decreases the water will flash into steam and expand.
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If i understand correctly, the water that forms should form as steam because of the temperature thats already there. Another thing to consider is the amount of water produced by ignition of petroleum fuel and atmospheric water.
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I think these kits are fantastic to save on gas. I also agree with many of the people that have posted that the government is going to try and stop it. Though we don't want to admit it, oil barons actually run our government. This was very evident back in the 40s and 50s when Tucker came out with a car that had all of the "modern" safety features that we have now. This country is run, not only on, by oil! Most government officials will say that our economy would suffer if we all of a sudden switched. I'd like to know what they call it that the country is doing now? I think we're already suffering.
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Hydride fuel tanks: It's in testing and research phase. Solar power cars: They've been on the road. Let's just buy motorcycles and change out the fuel tanks for pure hydrogen like the BMW in Germany. Tada. Boom, shaka-laka-boom. Not safe? Well, let's get on board with a 3-fuel-source public transit system.
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Iraq should be BLEEDING oil into the US pipeline after we saved their A$$E$ from the Evil Dictator, Sadaam.
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Oh yeah because the Iraqi people are such nice guys they are just going to give us a price break. LOL.
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france has a has a hot air engine
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Let's get real for a few minutes. Ethanol may not be a really good choice for an alternate fuel as currently made (from corn). This is evidenced by the recent flooding and price increases of a bushel of corn. Other sources of ethanol could be similar as things like weather is uncontrollable and large quantities of energy is required to raise, harvest and convert the crops to ethanol. Rechargeable electric cars may be OK for commuting to work etc but when taking longer trips, like on a vacation etc, they would largely be useless. There is the pollution electric generation plants emit which would probably more than double if rechargeable cars were widely used. Your recharging costs would be significant too. Electric generation plants would have to be built/expanded to respond to this increased demand. Fuel cells are another possibility but a fuel cell car will be costly and it will take 30-40 years for everyone to get on board-everyone cannot afford these cars new, so they will have to wait until the used market allows them to purchase one. Hydrogen holds the best short term promise provided fueling stations or hydrogen on demand technologies are developed. I think hydrogen is the fuel of the future simply because everyday folks will be able to convert their present cars over relatively cheaply! Until these infrastructure/on demand technologies are developed, oil companies should be allowed to drill EVERYWHERE. This will hold the prices at current levels or reduce prices. I get very sick of hearing naysayers and liberal Democrats say it will take 10 years to bring this oil online. It takes less than 1-3 years to drill and fully develop an oil well depending on how deep and exactly where the drilling occurs. I live on the edge of a current oil field and have watched many oil wells drilled as well as worked indirectly with many oil related companies/people. You also don't hear the real story behind alternate fueled vehicles especially from the politicians and media. There has been muted hydrogen fuel news/comments which gives me hope that we hydrogen nuts are on to something. Production of HHO from water in significant quantities to fully run a car yields water which could be returned to the HHO device and recycled over and over. The hydrogen could possibly be kept separate from the oxygen until it is injected into the engine, reducing or eliminating the explosive potential of the hydrogen (much like gasoline is now-gasoline vapor is too very explosive in the presence of oxygen). More electrical requirements to separate the two chemicals from water could be potentially provided by a separate generator much like my 2000 watt generator that runs under full load for 4-6 hours on a gallon of gas (it could be readily converted to run on hydrogen too). Something to ponder anyway, huh?
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I have a low cost 89 Festiva L that gets about 40-45 miles per gallon of gas. Using the generator for separation of the chemicals from water, that means I would only have to produce the hydrogen equivalent of something over 1 gallon of gas (but less than 2) every hour to travel at 60 mph in that Festiva. Chemical separation from other matter/chemicals at that rate would also work. I also have two 49cc 2-stroke Sunl pocket bikes one of which I intend to use for possible hydrogen experiments since I do not have much at all invested in purchase of that particular bike (I will have to figure out how to provide lubrication thru oil injection first since it is 2 cycle). These little bikes get well over 100 mpg which make them prime candidates for such experimentation. I will keep you posted on my progress if any.
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Jerry,
You were making good sense up until you had to bash Democrats. And what's wrong with being a liberal??? Look up the definition.... Its the reason we're allowed to have forums like this.
I also agree/disagree with your comment about corn. You said we'd be open to bad weather causing prices to raise. How is that any different than what happen after katrina? And 9/11... when no oil fields were hit? With oil not only is weather a factor but world politics as well. And in the case of Iowa.... WHY plant corn in a flood zone! Last I checked it doesn't flood in Colorado. We have technology to grow corn on the moon... we can damn sure grow it in Colorado. However, you're right CORN is not the answer... Switchgrass is the better product for E-based fuels... which grows anywhere.
Drilling EVERYWHERE is the retarded brainwashed side of the republican answer. We need to STOP using fossil fuels period. Why would Exxon spend the 15Billion to drill in AK if they thought we'd just be using them to keep prices low as me move to other products??? thats just stupid. It takes 50Million years for the earth to replace 1 gallon of crude oil. It takes 1 summer using ethanol.
The oil companies will crumble if we used alternative fuels. Any Tom, Dick and Harry could go into the fuel business growing crops in their back yard. With oil... it leaves the business only to a select few and protects the interest of Big Oil. In front of Congress about a month ago.. all Big Oil executives agree drilling in AK or anywhere else would take about 7-10 years to drive prices down. No Democrat made that up. You can view it on CSPANs archives.
I agree 100% about Hydrogen.... it is the best short term choice. Honda has a nice Civic for sale with a lot of promise. Long term... who knows... but for the next 10 years it sure does seem like the best approach.
I've said in earlier posts.... the USA has a chance to really change the world and be the leader in alternative fuels. However with the retarded side of Republicans in control.. they are brainwashing their followers to keep money with the select few instead of promoting free enterprise.
If the entire USA got behind this movement we'd end this economic slump almost over night. Building fueling stations, growing crops, transporting fuel, building refining facilities, educating mechanics, converting vehicles , and all the other business that supports the growth.
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Var, political thinking only clouds your mind. I was not bashing anyone, just stating the fact that lies are detrimental to everyone's well being in this world (they do make me mad simply because too many people don't actually know the truth and that lie is largely coming from those particular political type people we all see/hear that are in the limelight on TV, radio, the Internet, etc.). Bet you now think I am a Republican! Well I don't necessarily associate myself with any political party. In fact I am not so sure if we would not be better off without political parties. I am liberal on some things, conservative on some things and neutral on still some other things. I routinely cross party lines when I vote, that is I vote for the person I believe will do the best job regardless of that person's party affiliation. In reality the drilling in ANWR, oil bearing shale in the west and offshore will mean nothing unless the drilling is done ASAP and the oil brought to market quickly. This drilling will have the effect that we are effectively reducing our dependency on foreign oil and reduce or otherwise hold prices where they are. True, the drilling and marketing of that oil will still be in the big oil companies' hands, but by real Congressional action as well as public pressure from 200 million plus people on Congress/President and big oil, drilling now could make a real difference. Congress and the President/Presidential hopefuls from all the parties need to stop their stupid political talk of taxing, giving 300 million dollars to battery technology and such, and get down to the real work of solving this problem which includes alternative fuels. They need to do it WITHOUT all the bickering. Every time I hear a congressman/woman (Republican & Democrat) say things like "the other side of the isle" or "partisan/bi-partisan" I immediately think the worse in what they're saying and wish there was no such thing as political parties. My statements about corn and corn prices are true-corn is not the real problem but speculators drive up prices based on all the more or less true/false media attention of damaged corn crops, your statements about Katrina are true, there are disagreements as to the origin of oil - even in the scientific community (whether it came from dead plants & animals or otherwise), Republicans AND Democrats are retarded in their thinking and acting and neither party promotes free enterprise where a little guy like me or you can make a difference, you're right about the entire USA getting behind this movement. I hate NAFTA (a derivative of Republican AND Democratic actions) but the plight we find ourselves in could very well improve because of the need and development of alternative fuels here in the USA. All but a few are looking to newly developed vehicles/technologies from none other than big auto manufacturers and other technologies from big business. I am hopeful that out of this few will come the new answer to vehicular fuel and I think that answer may very well be hydrogen on demand that will make your current vehicle worth more than 2-400 dollars junk price! Want another credit crunch to go along with the housing thing? By forcing absolutely everyone to junk their present vehicle and purchase an expensive new hybrid or electric vehicle will probably cause just that, plus a dramatic fall in other goods and services sales. With climbing prices on virtually everything, there are plenty of people who can't afford a $5-700+ car payment for 5+ years without stopping the purchase of a whole host of goods/services while they pay for that vehicle (I am talking junk priced trade in value on their present vehicle, and assuming that if this were to happen, the price of a new "energy efficient" vehicle would immediately skyrocket).
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Ok. So I heard about this and started researching it a few weeks ago. After a few experiments in the garage using a 12 volt battery i eventually came up with a system similar to the ones selling for ebay for $50-$80. It costs about $40 in parts from your local hardwares stores. The hard part was trying to get it to stop blowing fuses. The system was then installed on a late model minivan, and the results were marginal, although there was a definate increase in gas mileage. Approximately 3.25 MPG. The test was a 50 mile loop on the interstate with the HHO generator hooked up and then it disconnected. Without HHO 28.5 mpg, with HHO 31.75 mpg. numbers speak for themselves, its true they work as a suplement.
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HOW DID YOU GET IT TO STOP BLOWING FUSES
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Check out this link on BioFuel.... for those who keep saying using Corn is not a way get off crude oil. My point here is to STOP thinking of corn as the producer. The corn industry is run like a group of gangster just like oil. http://www.naturalnews.com/023378.html
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To add more to my previous post, I don't usually repeat as truth what I heard others say like OIL EXECUTIVES. I get my info from personal observation/experiences and listening to or participating in unbiased conversations over many years with people who do not have an agenda such as keeping oil prices up. If Congress really wanted the truth about how long it would take to get the oil to market, they should have asked anyone but an oil executive. I also have a suggestion, why not grow sugar cane here in the South the way they did years ago but in a bigger way. This sugar cane could then be used to make ethanol just like Brazil does. With the use of corn, sugar cane, switch grass, wood chips and all the other available sources, ethanol could become a viable fuel that wouldn't be so dependent upon the weather. Flex fueled vehicles suited to run 85% ethanol is another of those fairy tales put out by many including auto manufacturers. Just ask an old moonshiner or his runners! Back in the 60s I ran some of this moonshine alcohol at heavy concentrations in my vehicles without any adverse reactions including the knock from using an unleaded fuel and power loss many are fond of saying. Modern engines are essentially the same as older engines only they have a different fuel/air delivery system, different ignition system and are computer controlled with additions like smog prevention devices and catalytic converters etc. They can be converted (if conversion is even necessary) to run pure or at least higher concentrations of ethanol. They can be converted to run pure hydrogen or a blend of hydrogen and other fuels like gasoline, diesel, ethanol and the list goes on. These technologies exist today and many date back 50, 60, 70 or more years. We absolutely can get out of this crunch in a very short time with widespread participation and do it mainly with alternative fuels.
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Jerry or anyone else:
Why is B100 for home heating, 50 cents more expensive per gallon than #2 heating oil? 'Sounds suspiciously suspicious.
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I don't know Joe. I live in the deep south where propane, natural gas, and electricity are used for heating. Personally I have an all electric rural home where there is very little local government interference such as building codes, permits, etc. I even get my water from a well which means it too is dependent upon that same electrical source. I have propane backup heaters, generators, etc. I can use in the event the electricity is out for an extended period of time. One of my pet projects is conversion of a 5000 watt generator to producer gas and eventually to pure hydrogen via an on demand system of some sort. Gasoline usage for that particular generator is 5 gals for 8+ hours at full load. If I can produce pure hydrogen on demand at the rate of just over 1/2 gal equivalent per hour minimum, that will supply my home with up to 5000 watts of power anytime I want it or need it. Producer gas to run that generator is no real problem, just have to finish building the system and work on making the generator run at the correct rpm. As noted before in several previous posts, Knowledge Publications (dot com) has some good books/DVDs on producer gas etc. if you're interested. Shifting gears a little, for those who missed it Smack's booster (dot com) has downloadable free plans for HHO generation for cars/pickups/motorcycles which include plans/schematics for fooling the oxygen sensor (downloadable from another website through a link in the smacksbooster (dot com) download which is also free).
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Knowledge Publications sells at least two sizes of heaters. Knowledge Publications claim these heaters use a sort of producer gas generated by burning twigs, wood chips, dry grasses, pine cones, etc. One could conceivably be used as a backup heat source if set up inside a fireplace in the home (for expulsion of any bad fumes). Of course the use of a carbon monoxide detector near the fireplace may be advisable. I am thinking of purchasing the newer larger version primarily for that purpose as well as to use while camping in colder weather (I do a lot of that too). Don't miss out on those free HHO PDF format downloads from smacksbooster(dot com) I mentioned in my last post!!!
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Boycot EXXONMOBILE.
Have you seen the ads on CNN. ExxonMobile Corp. Claims to be developing Lithium Ion battery technology to get the world off of oil. Do you buy this? They're going to develop the technology, PATENT it and keep it under lock and key until we beg for mercy, all the oil is gone and then fleece us for the better technology - they are scum.
BOYCOT EXXONMOBILE - I stop at an ExxonMobile station to do two things; #1 and #2 (preferably #2 because that is what they are doing to us).
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I'm totally againts Oil companies as well, however in the end I think one of the major oil companies is going to be our biggest greener power provider... you see it's getting to the point where everyone is hating the oil companies and they realize that and in the end image of a company is everything so they will jump ship onto green power it's just a matter of time... and when one jumps they all will follow... i just hope it won't be too late
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Exactly what will this battery technology do short termed if it is indeed brought to market? Save the wealthier segment of our people some money on fuel or what? Save you money on fuel while you make high car payments? I don't see the reasoning behind these electric vehicles as far as the short term implications are concerned! In the future (30 or 40 years) they may become commonplace enough to make some difference as far as auto emissions are concerned but what about electric power plant emissions and electric rate increases from all the electric plant building, electric demand, etc. John McCain wants to give 300 million dollars to whoever increases battery capacity and Obama wants to do similar things plus cause the price of gas to increase from taxation (consumers always pay for tax increases). They both are largely addressing very long term solutions and doing nothing as far as NOW is concerned. Too many in Congress are of the same mindset! We the people have got to make our voices heard AND do everything we can to help ease the oil thing short termed. ExxonMobile, BP and others are only trying to fool people into setting around doing nothing while paying high prices in hopes of something that is in reality way off in the future!
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But all alternative vehicles are cost prohibitive compared to their gasoline counterpart. If nobody takes initiative it will never come to fruition. People who commute long for work will find the higher priced hybrids/alternatives cost effective and it will take some time for AFVs prices to come down.
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I am not exactly a fan of President Bush but he does at least support ethanol production from such things as switch grass and hydrogen production/infrastructure. Both are kind of short term solutions if implemented correctly. He also correctly advocates the development of longer termed things like battery technology and electric cars. I think some of the blame for Iraq belongs squarely on the shoulders of Congress, both Republicans AND Democrats. The actual action against the Iraq army and their dictator was over when President Bush announced it over. I don't think the widespread aftermath with the terrorist factions was really expected or planned for the way it came down. Sure the war was partially over oil but what if Sadam and other crazy Mid East types took over all of OPEC? Venezuela would have most likely been emboldened enough to join in. We could have been looking at prices of $20+ for a gallon of gas as well as gas rationing, stock market crashes and depression with all the woes that would go with it. Mind you, I am not standing up for Bush and his handling of the Iraq thing but I am acknowledging that there may be more to it than meets the eye.
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Joe, I am NOT saying we should not pursue those other things but face the fact that many of them are very long termed. We need to do them AND look for short term alternatives that work in our present vehicles. They are out there and could be had in a short time, but if everyone pulls toward long term solutions, long term answers is what we will get. Look at the overall picture for a change, NOT everyone in the USA can afford to junk their present vehicle and buy another. What is someone who bought a new car in the past year or two supposed to do, tell their finance company to take a hike then junk that car and almost outright buy another? If everyone were to immediately go out and buy a hybrid, junk price is all their present car would be worth. If you can afford a new hybrid vehicle now, by all means buy it. Every little bit helps but to suggest that as an overall answer is to deny that a bigger problem exists and will grow as time passes unless most of the USA population gets aboard the right train in one way or another! The initial purpose behind this particular thread is a step toward getting on that train.
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Ok... Jerry.... I take my last comments back. I am a fan now...LOL.
You are so right in so many ways. Here's the thing about Ethanol. Brazil wants and can sell us Ethanol cheaper than we can make it right now. HOWEVER, that would mean the current American suppliers would go out of business almost over night unless they became more effective.
The other problem.... Bush says one thing, but is backing the Corn industry which I've said several times and sorry to beat a dead horse....but the Corn industry is just as shady as the Oil industry. CORN should NOT be used for ethanol!.. which is why our domestic supply is so costly.
Every car on the street today can be converted to run E85 and some even E100. Switch grass and Algae are the best crops to use. Switch grass requires just sunlight .. and will grow in many places. Algae can be farmed ANYWHERE in the World in a green house.
So this would mean anyone with a few bucks in their pocket could go into the business and prices would drop to the floor with amount of supply. The only "real" problem would be quality assurance.
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Everyone knows someone who knows someone. If this was feasible don't you think Chrysler, Ford, GM would adapt it
very quickly instead of laying off workers and closing plants. Sales would be booming. They could charge everyone 500.00 per vehicle to install it. Plus sell a ton of new vehicles.
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Stop bitching each other and lets work together, can any one of you tell me or better say sed me the copy of the print with simple instructions and how to correct the mixing valve or IAC and whatever changes has to be made
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Smacksbooster (dot com) has a free pdf download for HHO device plans, plus there is a link to another site (in the download or on the first site) that has a free PDF download for a circuit(s) that assists your burning of HHO/gasoline by fooling the O2 sensor. Studying/doing these will at least help you understand the concept better.
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If you don't have the ability to view pdf files, just go to adobe.com and download their FREE adobe reader software.
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Safety information not with first post... If you are going to use salt in your generator solution, remember that this will create chlorine gas which is not good for human internal combustion. Screw the government, the oil companies, remember the Hindenberg.
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Salt in the solution may not be good. Be sure to double check the amperage drain if using salt as opposed to another substance like baking soda, caustic soda, etc! Tap water and sea water can cause the same thing as a short between the positive lead and the negative lead, upping the amperage draw to unacceptable levels.
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I am mid research on the HHO Generators and they are legit period. I am still learning but I know there are fine points to learn re o2 sensors and fuel injectors....BUT, instant cure for oil: All NON-OPEC Nations still SELL bushels of grain for $7 each to oil producing eastern countries.....I SAY, BUSHELS OF GRAIN SHOULD BE SOLD FOR $130 EACH ! Something tells me the oil cost per barrel would suddenly drop.
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Reuben, I like that thought about charging OPEC countries $130 a bushel for grain!
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Has anyone here thought of the idea of a Hydrogen/Electric car? With the opposition we face from the oil companies its going to be forever before we see no/super low carbon transportation. They have to figure out how to structure it so that they still win and we still lose. Why not just build a hydrogen generator into a hybrid instead of gasoline. We of course would not need the generators if Texaco hadn't bought the battery technology then retricted its use. Any way as it stands now there are electric cars that get 300 miles between charging. Install a hydrogen generator into an electric car and you now have a ultra low maintanence, ultra low emission, fast car.
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They already got that car its only available in cali the honda fcx hydrogen fuel cell honda is also working on the generator for you to fill up at home it can also run your stove, water heater, and an on board generator. Ive been emailing honda bothering them to make the fcx available now the reason its not is infrastructure. But thats why the are making the home generator but it wont be cheap imagine a solar and wind package with enough power to run your house and produce hydrogen to fill your fuel cell your probably 100k between the car and the generator solar wind package. Probably take awhile to save the difference in your gas increases.
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ha!
I can't believe your all fooled by this!
Fuel cells run by converting hydrogen and oxygen to water and creating electricity in the process, not the other way round.
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Does anyone have a good website to get plans for hydrogen fuel and use gasoline for a Stock 1993 Chevy 1500 5.7L v8.
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Hi Dan. I have a 91 gmc 5.7 I made a unit to put on it and up my miles per gallon from 14 to 24. more power,run smother and cooler,e-mail me and we will talk ok.
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BIG JIM, I have a generator on my 1998 chev 1500. I could not ues brown gas ,too much O2.. I separated the H2 and am using it only and discarding the O2. I am also putting 3 ounces of Acetone : 10 gals 87octane gasoline... 32 mpg on a trip to Tahoe last month Nor Cal brianvickeryusa@
comcast.net
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guys be careful what you post.. if u can be traced i suggest u keep ur ideas to urself. dont u kno the government doesnt want us to know this? im sure they would go to extreme lengths to stop someone telling the world how to get around giving the government money.
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I want to get into the industry of making/converting cars to either full electric or hydro/electric how would I go about getting in touch with someone in that industry?
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We've been selling hydrogen generators for several weeks that work on gasoline and diesel engines. Ours are made from 6 quart mason jars and run on baking soda and water, 12 volts / 10 amps of power from your battery, and engine vacuum and we're seeing motorhomes going from 9 mpg to 29 mpg... old cadillacs going from 23 mpg hwy to 35 mpg hwy. and 96 Dodge 4x4 pickups going from 15 or 16 mpg to 28mpg. This technology has been around forever, but only recently been refined into a kit that offers easy installation, and adequate hydrogen production. There is no danger because the system is not pressurized as it simply runs on engine vacuum. 10% - 50% with a kit that costs you about $150 to build your-self, or about $400 ready to install.
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Where do you sell your kits and how hard are they to install
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I dont know if you know this but baking soda produces chlorine gas when burnt in your engine, you might want to investigate further before you sell any more.
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Where does the chlorine come from? The chemical formula for baking soda is NaHCO3 and water is H20. Chlorine's formula is Cl2 (that's an L not a 1).
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Treated city water has chlorine in it but also has a number of different elements and impurities that will only raise the input amperage needed to make the HHO system work. The use of distilled water with baking soda or another similar chemical formulation in the proper amounts to make the electrical current flow properly is the way to go. Distilled water alone will not carry current very good. Tap water alone often draws too much current (because of the presence of the other elements, minerals, etc.). Control the amount of input amperage needed by controlled addition of baking soda etc to DISTILLED water!
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Today I installed a hydrogen generator in my car. I started with a "Whole House Water Filter" I bought at Home Depot. I tossed the filter. I only needed the tank. I bought a sheet of plexiglass, nuts, bolts and 6 feet of stainless steel cable, meant for use as an anchor chain.
Long story short, I cut the plexiglass, drilled a few holes, cut a few slots with a band saw, glued the stuff together, created a coil with the anchor cable, put it all together with the tank filled with distilled water and enough baking soda to push the water to the acid side (about 6 PH) I used a meter from a garden center that measures PH, Light and moisture, it's a must have in my garden.
I installed the system under the hood. I had to wire it up with a 20 amp switch and a 20 amp breaker and an amp meter so I can monitor the system. I ran a stainless steel hose (the kind you connect a washing machine) from the hydrogen generator to the air intake system of the car. Everything works perfectly.
I have many years experience as a machinist. I fully understand how internal combustion engines work. I was once a paramedic and had an O2 tank. Pure oxygen. I once had a candle burning and I wondered what would happen if I added pure oxygen to the flame, when I did, the flame became 3 times taller and as many times brighter. This is the same thing that happens when you add pure oxygen and hydrogen to your engine. The gas burns cleaner and the engine uses less gas for the same amount of power generated.
I once worked for a cardiologist. He did heart surgeries all day long, like is was a walk in the park. I feel the same way about my skills and experience. I know most people would have no idea how this stuff works under the hood, but I do and I know it works. I know the oil companies likely don't want us to know about this stuff. If every car on the road suddenly got an extra 10 MPG, they would sell a lot less gas.
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I'm in the process of building a cell that runs your car or truck off of straight hydrogen by using a circuit board to produce all the power I need to produce the gas needed.Let everybody know more later.I have one on my trailblazer that use to get 18 mpg now gets 35 mpg.
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This whole thing is a load of crock! I think the gov't would welcome less reliance on Arabian oil than more so am unconvinced by the conspiracy theory. Our local TV station did a story on a conversion one month after it was installed by a keen mechanic. Result: small hydrogen explosion at some point and negligable extra fuel economy. I am an electrical engineer and have also looked at the book that a friend bought on line. The construction of said device was too prohibitive to build unless one lived in the US and the final detail lacked any constructive detail on fine tuning. The coil winding was just insane!
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Sounds like some of the folks participating in this thread are stepping out and trying new things despite all the nay sayers. I say more power to you all because one day one or several of you will stumble onto something that will make your fuel savings at this time pale by comparison!
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Correct, Jerry
It seems that the folks that say it can't work are the ones with no practical experience. On the way home from work I filled the tank and checked the MPG. 29 in the city with the system in place. Previously the city milage was 18-20. The engine seems to have much more low end power. I can drive on a city street at 35 MPH in 4th gear. The engine is running at about 1800 RPM. I could never do something like that before. I would have had to be in 3rd gear at 2500 RPM or so. I can also get off the line with much less effort. I can put the car in 1st gear and get off the line at 1000-1500, instead of 2000+ RPM.
My system is using Baking Soda. The draw is generally 3 amps. For those people who say this kind of system will put a huge burden on the alternator, I say, how do these crazy kids power up those massive stereo systems in their cars that can be heard for several blocks as they drive by? My headlights draw more power that this HHO system.
A post update to consider... I built my system using household water filters for the HHO tank and bubbler. Both filter tanks have pressure relief valves on them. I also have a vacuum gage connected, very near the output side of the bubbler. At idle, the gage shows 20-25 inches of vacuum. I pushed the pressure relief valves and heard HHO gas escaping. Conclusion is, the system is producing more HHO than the engine can consume. You don't need a huge "6-pack" system to get excellent results.
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I have just finished testing a new design and it works quite well. I read many comments that state the car's alternator can't provide enough power to split water into hydroxy gas. Most of the systems I see on YouTube draw 10-20 amps. When this much amperage is involved, an unavoidable problem happens. As the water in the tank warms up, more amperage is needed. I saw this happen with an older system I built. I had a full tank of water in the system and by the time I got to my destination, (about 15 miles), half of the water was gone. What was left in the tank was boiling. Truly a bad design...
My new tank draws less than 500 milliamps, one half of an amp. I drove all over today and the water level did not drop. The bubblier tank has a pressure relief valve on it and when I opened the valve, I heard pressure escaping. This means the HHO generator is producing more gas than the car can consume.
I'm testing with a 1993 Ford Escort. The car got 20 MPG before and now, with the Hydroxy system in place, the average MPG (city driving) is 30.
For those who have no idea what Amps means, consider this. Pretend water is electricity, 12 volts. The water (electricity) must travel through a wire, or in this example a hose. Think of a garden hose and a fire hose. The bigger the hose, the greater amount water (electricity) can flow. Amps are the "hose". 1 amp is like a garden hose and 10 amps is the fire hose.
My new system does not get hot, nor does the water boil and evaporate. I have seen a 50% increase in MPG with no problems at all.
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For those of you who are asking why we cannot run our cars strictly on water is because of the combustion syatem that runs the car... It makes sense that water works because water is just hydrogen and oxygen which by themselves are highly combustiable components. but because hydrogen is not AS combustable as traditional gasoline it takes more hydrogen fuel to actually cause an equal amount of force than an gasoline/hydrogen mix. This isnt exactly ideal because gasoline is mixed with air in order to to create more focre. But with so much hydrogen inside the cylinder along with so much air (also to fuel the "explosion") there is no space for the combustion process to expand and therefore creating less force to move the pistons... Theoretically you could solve that with larger cylinders and larger pistons but when you put that into action it just creates a larger engine with the output of a much smaller engine, which results in a heavier engine and a heavier car, which of course calls for more force and the problem simply repeats itslef. I hope all of that was understandable and of course theres quite a few problems with the "water only" idea, this was simply one of the smaller quandries. Its all physics and chemistry, but of course im no engineer...
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Can you post the design you made or send it to me by e-mail? I would like to hook this up on my 93 Ford F150 to see what it can do. Any increase would be good from 12 mpg!
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So you put a dummy O2 sensor on your truck to get more power and now you want an HHO device to save gas. Aren't 'we' contradicting! :)
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The Govt' would be the FBI and as far as I am concerned, so long as your ideas and efforts are for general public interest we should be fine. Freedom of Speech can only be violated when it effects other peoples freedoms. So again, so long as this is for *personal use* and we throw a couple disclaimers in here, we should be fine. The only thing I see that would bring Govt' crashing down on you ('you' is said in plural form) would be marketing such a product. Just my 2 cents.
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Mike I bought the Water4Gas manual and I agree... It's a lot of labor and expensive cpvc and steel parts. I am a mechanic and I will if need be but don't want to do the tedious coil winding etc. These are high quality parts suggested I'm sure but if you have some insight on a cheaper, simpler way to try this out on a fuel inj. truck I'd appreciate it. Thanks!
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Mack, high school chemistry as well as real world chemistry disagrees. Oxygen is not flammable in it's pure state. It only acts to promote oxidation, and in the case of gasoline or hydrogen, this oxidation (combustion) takes place almost instantly whenever a heat source is also introduced (spark plug). If oxygen was flammable we would have burned up long ago because it is in the air all around us. Pure hydrogen is every bit as flammable as gasoline vapor.
In the case of a HHO device, the separated hydrogen and oxygen will take up space in the cylinder normally filled by gasoline. The oxygen introduced will help aid combustion but since it is only 1/2 the amount of hydrogen (as produced by a HHO device), it does not take up as much space leaving the combustible gasoline and hydrogen still concentrated enough cause the explosion. Remember, there is also the natural oxygen in the air that is sucked in on the down stroke of the piston. Both sources of oxygen probably is needed for complete burn of both the gasoline and hydrogen but some of it may be left over in it's pure form. The amount of gasoline introduced at traveling speeds is simply controlled by the accelerator pedal. The higher the concentration of hydrogen, the less you have to mash the accelerator pedal and the lower the amount of gasoline injected into the cylinder. On completely computer controlled engines, the amount of oxygen introduced is why you sometimes have to change the way the O2 sensor reads those amounts in the exhaust that is not fully combined to another element. If excess O2 is detected by the oxygen sensor, the computer will auto adjust the amount of gasoline the engine receives and flooding may occur, especially at an idle.
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Ok I have read all the posts so far and to be quite honest, I am very disappointed with the way the discussion keeps getting muddied with politcal agenda and other BS. Here's what I know.
1. Hydrogen is 2.2 times (approx) more powerful than Gas.
2. it takes approx 2psi of PURE hydrogen to equal a gallon of gas.
3. On board electrolysis is possible and capable of producing enough hydrogen to run a car (just run a search on Stan Meyers, he figured it out but is now dead)
4. I am sick of hearing about the law of thermo-dynamics (who cares, laws are made to be broken)
5. Never compete with a food source for fuel (i.e. Corn, that's why food prices would gone up as well and would go much higher )
6. I have a water-fuel cell that I'm working on that is producing good results with just plain tap water.
7. voltage is what counts in electrolysis not amperage
8. Hydrogen is not an energy carrier, it is a fuel source just like gasoline.
9. electrolysis needs to be improved for this to work
10. I am completely sick and tire of people saying it can't be done. period.
with all that said.
comments?
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wow what a super car we want a carimmediatelyfrm vijayaqwada
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This is my kind of do it yourself kit! I want one. Oh, I also want one of those new air cars! Anything and everything so I can quit buying from oil companies!
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Are you Kirk Adamson of Sunderland?
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I would like to know where you can buy a kit?
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I have a 01 Ford, can you share your system info with me? Or can I purchase one from you?
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Jeff, please share some more info about your new system only using 500miliamps. You seem to have actual info that we can use (compared to others posting...). How much $$ in parts, what parts, possibly post a schematic or pictures, did you have to add or adjust computer/circutry, what modifications did you do to your engine? please help me out.
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I'm not totally convinced that the sole reason the government doesn't want people doing this is due to big oil. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are plenty of politicians out there who blanch at the thought of the companies that fund them losing money...but.... I think part of it involves safety concerns. A good example is the guy above who says his brothers Audi is fuel injected and carbeurated at the same time by some mechanical marvel and that the block was cracked. This is a classic reason of why people who don't know what they are doing should NOT DO THINGS LIKE THIS! I could care less if some asshole blew up his motor or shocked himself installing something like this, but the government will care because people will bitch if they ignore it. What about the hydrogen gas being produced? Stuff is pretty damn flammable (I believe explosive at concentrations of 8% or more) and if Joe Schmoe doesn't know what he's doing and his electrolysis machine sparks in the wrong place...well, doesn't look good for ol' Joe. Along the same note are some good points brought up by others about corrosion. Yeah, sure you spent $100 in parts to build your hydrogen/gas hybrid, but how much more are you going to spend when your exhaust system rusts out (manifold, downpipe. cat, muffler, the works...). Adjusting timing is no easy task either. What is your vehicle's computer going to think? Most computers will auto adjust things in the engine (fuel timing, gas/air mixture, etc) based upon output criteria. How does adding this little quirky thing into your engine change this? Is the computer going to adjust in a way that negatively impacts this setup? Far too many unknowns in this equation in my opinion. Think I'll wait until someone posts an exact account of how they did it on their car (their car being the same year/model as mine) and what the effects were.
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This is always a problem for me. Wouldn't this be like saying that it takes more energy to manufacture and/or detonate a nuclear bomb than is released when it is exploded?
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Larry says
Why Cant a person use the exsiting Battery as a hydrogen generator becouse a battery make hydrogen gas so a person can hook up fitings to the top of the battery and run it into the manafold this is much simpler then to make a container,Larry.
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Heads, valves, valve seats and the entire exhaust system manifold headers to tail pipe will soon corrode and rust away,if it isn't all stainless steel or some other such metal.I think your going to have big problems.
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Though burning any organic compound will produce water vapor, look for a simple "combustion equation". I'm not sure if the amount of water produced by hydrogen on homemade systems would pose a problem, seeing that 1.00cc of ethanol produces .307cc of water and gasoline can contain as much as 10% ethanol (look for a label on the pump next time you fill up). As for the REACTIVITY of hydrogen; I personally don't know of any compounds that include iron that it can form easily form, when in its normal diatomic molecule (H2).
Note: Gasoline and other mined oil product are organic
By the way I like the paranoia about the government...
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Yea, like saying you have to put the same energy in to get the same energy out of gas. The energy source is the hydrogen in the water. All you're doing is separating the two relatively simple elements found in water. Gasoline is a hydrocarbon. By burning it, you are simply causing a chemical reaction, changing it and the extra oxygen introduced to separate different compounds (water being one of them). The very rapid oxidation of gasoline is all that is used to propel a vehicle. Hydrogen (from the gas and a little from the moisture in the air) and oxygen is reunited to form the water vapor in the exhaust from the vehicle. In essence, a car burning only gasoline still burns hydrogen found in that gasoline but only after it is chemically separated from the gas. Since these separations take time (fraction of a second), that is part of the reason why a car engine's timing must be set to introduce the spark before the piston gets to the top, so that the needed time elapses. When very much pure hydrogen is introduced to the mixture, the engine timing must be to where the spark is introduced while the piston is nearer to the top than it is with gasoline only. You see, there is less need for time and chemical separation of the gasoline because some of the gasoline has been replaced by an already separated rapid oxidation capable element.. A whole lot of today's vehicles are manufactured with stainless steel exhausts. If everything is correctly set, there shouldn't be any loose oxygen atoms to cause oxidation of the exhaust except for at the very end of the exhaust pipe where it again can get oxygen from the outside air.
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So, what web-site were they referring to in the article above? I would buy the product shown and spoken of. I have been looking into many other sources and Hydrogen seems the BEST way to go by far. I am one of those type of people that feels the government is WAY to involved in all that we do. Our forefathers wrote in the Constitution of this great country that we had three Rights that no one should or could take from us. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. All three of which are being infringed upon by the US Government and we all idly sit by and let them do it. Let's put our money where our mouth is. If we all joined together putting what we have to give in to the "kitty" then we could move mountains. There would come a point when the Government would have to concede and we could have Victory not only for ourselves but for the American people in general and that is really what this is all about. (WHAT IS BEST FOR AMERICA AND ITS CITIZENS) How do I invest? Let me know.
Tammy
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It's been a while since I've posted here, but I had a thought today. Some Hot Rodders introduce Nitrous Oxide into the ICE for increased horsepower. The Hydrogen injection concept can't be too much different in terms of the mechanics, (except that in our case the Hydrogen is produced on board and NO Systems the Nitrous is bottled). There must be a few hot rodders out there who are knowledgeable about the nuances of such a system (assuming they are similar). As an engineer and a backyard mechanic I would think that the two systems are similar (thermodynamically speaking). Could a Nitrous Oxide System (NOS) be used with Hydrogen in place of the Nitrous? What types of adjustments are made to the timing, O2 sensor of a Nitrous system - if any?
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The amount of hydrogen created by the HHO generator... would NOT crack the block... Grab that spanner over there... yep... that one. Now, hit yourself VERY hard in the testes... we don't want you reproducing!
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reading through some of this, it sounds to me like walking on water would be easier than driving on it...
still, i salute all those on this thread who are trying to make it work.. who knows one day...
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carbon 14 dating is accurate! thats why it's almost always the same as the many other kinds of radioactive dating! and no one who knows what theyre talking about would doubt the efficiency of radioactive dating.
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What's carbon dating got to do with anything discussed here? Are you sure carbon 14 dating is accurate, sure enough to swear on a stack of Bibles? Carbon 14 dating just might be as inaccurate as the claims put forth by some of global warming and the cause of global warming if it even turns out to be real.
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yes i would swear easily on a stack of bibles about carbon 14 dating.
it's obvious if you've ever taken any level of chemistry that radiometric dating of all sorts make perfect sense.
And furthermore, to enhance the accuracy- no one ever does just one form of the dating
even if carbon 14 dating was flawed, it's a strange occurence that chemicals with totally different half-life's are finding nearly the exact same number as the carbon 14.
a quick google search will give you that
radiocarbon dating
rubidium-strontium
samarium-neodymium
potassium-argon
argon-argon
uranium-uranium
uranium-thorium
uranium-lead
optically stimulated luminescence dating
iodine-xenon
also have determinable half-life's and therefore can be used for dating. only the idiotic who believe that since nothing can be "proven" nothing can be true would believe that radiometric dating is inaccurate.
nothing can be proven because their is always a margin of error in real science.
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So good you both said it twice.. lol..
Jerry, I think the site was acting up the other night, and I am sure Carbon dating has come up on some other article. Could be just a posting error.
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amen to that my man
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wow your an idot.
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Who is an idiot? If you're talking about my statement about global warming, I am not saying that it is not real but am saying that if it is real it may be caused by things other than carbon dioxide or vehicle emissions in general.
Al Gore has made over 100 million dollars from his speeches and stuff on global warming. Who is Al Gore to be making speeches as if they were fact? In my book, those people who made Al Gore all those millions are the idiots.
Vehicle & factory emissions do cause harm to our environment, such as smog and other things, but global warming itself may be caused by things like clear cutting all the native forests in places like South America and even here in the USA.
Here in the southern USA, timber companies have drained much of the natural wetlands and clear cut most all the native hardwoods. They then plant not so native evergreen pine trees in the hardwood's place. I am talking millions and millions of acres.
A hardwood tree looses it's leaves and goes almost completely dormant in the winter time. With hardwood trees, ground water lost to the leaved out trees is replaced in the winter time. Evergreen pine trees still take up lots of water to sustain their needles in the winter time even though they sort of go dormant and stop putting on new growth. Evidence of this can be observed by comparing what's left of the natural wetlands.
Where these wetlands are surrounded by pine trees, they will almost dry up in a few non rainy winter days. But where some other wetlands are NOT surrounded by pine trees, they will retain the water during the same period.
Drier land starts to mimic desert like characteristics with higher temps. Sounds like what everyone is touting as global warming to me. And it is largely because of things other than carbon dioxide and such!!
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where will get it plz explain the address of that car
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I am sorry Aimen, but you cannot buy it anywhere as a ready made car. You will have to build it yourself. There are many people on here who are trying out the technology.
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I have built a dual gen system that I am using right now. It has the main bubbler in front of the rad and I built a mini bubler to put in the cab, and this thing works great. go to my website to see pics on the generator page. It's the best working one I've built out of 10 that I've built so far.
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Yea if you could tell us your website it would help because i've been looking for plans and can't find any this would help me alot
Thx Nathan
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that sounds pretty good RG.. where is your website? i am sure lots of us would like to look!
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Was it the govt that shut down the site or the fraudsters trying to sell you something that is pie in the sky? The only people that seem to rave about it are hiding behind electronic blog pages. NO PROOF because it does not exist!
Yes you can get hydrogen from water but not in the economical quantities that can be used safely by average Joe Blog!
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Why cant a person use the battery as a hydrogen generator!! battery make do hydrogen this would eliminate the container that you would have to build.
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correction battery do make hydrogen
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Hay RG what is your website so we can take a peek at your main bubblier
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Hi Woody,
I like your attitude,if you connect it to a hot wire that is off when the ignition is off then you don't need to worry about it running.
Or you can put a switch in the cab to shut it off whenever you like.
RG
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Hey Mike,
Can something like this work with a newer vehicle with a computer in it?
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Hydrogen is the way to go
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Eli is only posting comments on here because he is paid to. The oil companies do this all the time. They pay someone to make disbelievers out of as many people as possible. Just do a little searching on the web and you can find out about this on your own. I believe this is going to be huge. I want to thank you for creating this forum for all of us to discuss our experiments and compare notes. We all need to work together. Though we may never end our dependence on foreign oil, we may cut it back enough to stop having to deal with dangerous countries. Again I want to say thank you all.
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Hello John!! Would you sell one of your hydorgen cells to put on my Land rover discovery? How much would it cost? when would it be ready?
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Can you give me more specifics on how to do this I would pay you for a Do it yourself guide.
Respectfully,
Nic Giles
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I want to purchase hydrogen car kits for my fleet. from where i can get these kit at most competive bulk rates. send me quotation for 100 kits. thanks a lot.
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Buvie, I am glad someone went to science class.
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Actually I just read a book on perpetual motion and scientists agree that they aren't sure if its possible or not. They say they just don't know everything, and although perpetual motion was considered impossible they seem to get closer and closer every year. They will also say that the first law of thermodynamics in fact is no longer necessarily a law. Besides all the science stuff I've built one which I learned how to do from an Army bud that was building them in Panama in 1980. There are some systems that don't work but it certainly isn't rocket science
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There is such a thing as perpetual motion. Our Planet and all of the solar system move in perpetual motion. It is gravity that conteracts perpetual motion, but that motion is a natural occurence.
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I Thaught the same however the system does seem to work. The only reasoning I can provide is that by generating the HHO which has a negative NET energy contribution to the car, but when it burns it raises the temperature at which the fuel mixture burns, increasing the flame propergation and thus the efficency of the combustion of the petrol.
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Hate to burst your bubble but;-)I have an HHO unit in my 2001 Frontier and my mileage has increased 33% whilst using the excess electricity from my alternator to power the unit. I use about 30 amps to achieve 1.7 to 2 liters a minute and yes I did have trouble with heat at first but a simple dilution by adding a resevoir and recirulation pump has dealt with it quite effeciently. Too much heat and you make steam which is what you don't want. I went from 19 to 28 miles to a gallon using this system and all is good. Forget thermodynamics and just know that the system works with a good electrolyte, distilled water, proper voltage, maximum capacity, and careful installation. Stupidity and HHO don't mix so be careful.
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Buvie...excuse the brit for jumping into the conversation, but look for Stanley Meyer... A US dude who turned that process of electrolysis on it's head....Now it's milliamps instead of 10's of amps. Called water fracture dude!, it changes the way energy is used to force the hydrogen molecule away from the oxygen. Instead it releases both hydrogen electrons so you get 2x the release of HHO, but are using high voltage, low current to do the dirty work... I discovered this years back and when I got bored one year, I made one and got the washing machine to run from the water it used to do the washing... Aided by a hho modified genny. The bonus was finding out you can seal the genny in a proper sound proof box and the exhaust gas vents into the box....less noise and only needs the air to change 6 times per hour to stay happy. The dude that discovered all this suddenly died by poisoniong after he was paid a visit by your us navy!
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No, it is not that the laws of thermodynamics are wrong, just that the alternator does an awful lot of work that does not benefit you at all unless you put that electricity to work some how. A hydrogen generator does just that.
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I'm running a 1971 dodge charger 500 with a 340 engine in it. I fill up my tank with water you can normally go about 4,500 miles before changing is when i do it. I figured it out just like a bunch of ppl have it takes some trail and error but eventually you get it. More ppl need to start working on cars and getting to know them instead of all the dumb ass ppl who hear a little noise and think omg my trans going bad... its not to hard to figure out. Its an engine its internal combustion the combustion comes from gas and air mix figure that mix out with hydrogen and you gotta vehicle that runs on water congrats cuz building a hydro generator is the easy part. I spent probally 700 bucks on parts mainly stainless steel cuz it wont rust. Do not convert a diesel to run on hydrogen thats just not thinking at all a diesel's fuel lubricates the cylinder walls hints why using veg oil is a better idea. main problem with everybody is they sit at home and wait for someone to fix their problem wait for a kit that they can put in their car...there will never be a kit the gov gets taxes out of gas why the hell would they just allow companies to make hydro cars cuz then where does their money come from. I worked on bases where most every vehicle was powered by cng. In ww2 when there was a huge gas shortage then put different carbs on all the vehicles over seas and started getting around 65 mpg in old jeeps according to many vets i know who served then...and how many years ago was that and ppl are amazed by cars that get 45mpg now. i owned an older honda that got that. stop looking for ppl to come up with something do your research and test your ideas. Granted older vehicles are much easy to convert cuz they have carbs insted of EFI, but i've known a few and seen a few that run on hydrogen they bought kits for cng conversion and instead of using natural gas they used hydrogen that they produced...now thats a big hint for all those ppl out there getting cracking and get your head working there is enough info out there for a rookie to figure out how to produce hydrogen for those kits.
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hey my friend and i built a cell and put it on u-tube and punch in flotronbooster and see how well u like it has less than 1.5 amps
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Such amatuers.
Trying for a patent on something that'll save the planet and abolish big oil is stupid. You got what you asked for from Big Bro.
For this technology, you gotta go underground to perfect it. When your inventory is built up THEN attack the markets with it.
You went to the media too soon.
Now I shall corner the market with the converter kit & universal home station
Thank you.
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Because the company is owned by Bob Lazar. Check out his Wikipedia entry.
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Basically how a hydrogen conversion works is you take electricity from the battery of your vehicle and run it through water in order to separate the hydrogen and oxygen atoms. You then take this gas and run it to your fuel/air intake. It is much simpler to use it on a carburated engine because you don't need to trick the computerized oxygen sensor, you can just manually adjust the fuel/air ratio going to the engine. It is impossible to run a vehicle completely off of hydrogen without an outside source of electricity such as solar panels because the engine will not produce enough electricity to split the water molecules off of the hydrogen. Basically the circle of energy conversion does not magically make more energy.
For the water tank, you need something that will hold water and then solenoids that will optimize surface area in the water so that the optimal amount of hydrogen is produced. This can be done simply with electrical plates arranged on a plastic rod, spaced apart so that the electricity will need to run through the water, lending energy to break the bond between the oxygen and hydrogen. Once the molecule is broken, the atoms will rise to the top of the tank in a gaseous form, and this can be run directly to the carburator. It is important to make sure that the water tank is only receiving electricity while the engine is running and using the hydrogen as it is being produced, because if not, you are essentially turning your car into a bomb. I hope this info can help those who are interested in in the concept, and that it can help educate those who are so vehimently opposed to it.
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use larger connectors and wires to keep heating down.
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I had a problem with my container as well. It is not the amount of amps, or power as much as it is controlling the heat of the water. With that said.The saying goes, you get what you pay for. Now, what you have to do is make sure that all the metal components are of the right metal type first. You probably should use something like platinum coated copper wire if your putting the wire direct to the water. If you are connecting to a post that drops into the water, you have to use something that will not contaminate the water you are using. At least use a stainless metal. Better the metal, better the quality of your machine. you have the right idea sending it through the intake because, hydrogen is completely safe until it is compressed, and you are not going to produce enough from one small container to pressurize the fuel rail on injection systems. To keep the wires from melting, you also have to eliminate water boiling from the heat. If you set the system up right, you should have something like a water heater thermostat to cut on and off when the heat is too hi. Dont forget to use distilled water, and add baking soda.
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It is not the mount of amps as much as it is controlling the heat. First, you have to make sure that you use the right metal types. Do some research and you will find something real simple to help you. (HINT) it works like a water heater thermostat.
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marks idea was great listen to him :)
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You have no idea what you are talking about. The key to this system are the tanks and the controlled release of the hydrogen into the engine for detonation. You can't simply make this yourself, dolt.
The reason our government gets away with shutting down such competitive sites is because it's TOO BIG and our citizens are now 90% MORONS... case in point with your post. Fool.
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From Al
Your basic, Take a glass of water, put baking soda in, Put a cardboard over the glass, Put two holes in the cardboard for two wires. connect the wires to a 9volt battery. Watch one end of wire give off hydrogen, The other oxygen.
I'm new but I'm reading.
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YOU CAN BUILD A FREE ENERGY MACHINE IF YOUR SMART ENOUGH, IT IS CALLED A PULSED CAPACITOR DISCHARGE MOTOR, ALSO THE ADAMS MOTOR IS A GOOD VARIANT, GOTO A TORRENT SEARCH TYPE FREE ENERGY OR PULSE MOTOR, TESLA HAD A CAR THAT COULD RUN FOR FREE IN 1920'S. THIS TECHNOLOGY IS SUPRESSED LIKE MANY THINGS, SUCH AS ALIENS, GOTO YOU TUBE CHECK OUT "THE DISCLOSUE PROJECT"
A pulse motor runs off of high voltage dc discharges thru a spark gap, but the resonant frquency must be correct which is adjusted by the ratios of the caps and the inductors(electromagnets) which taps into the ether of the universe("radiant energy"), this is not bs nicola tesla figured all this out 100 years ago, but was suppressed(JP Morgan), you only here about Thomas A-HOLE Eddison who pioneered selling electricity for a large profit and that is IT!! HE DID NOT EVEN INVENT THE HYDRO METER.
This is all I will tell you, youve been informed if you have read this. It's your job to follow up and verify.
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The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed
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It does not make it run lean so you do not need to change the timing. The car brain (computer) does it for you. The oxygen sensor should recognize that the fuel consumption is rich, so it cuts back on the amount of fuel used.
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